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Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

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Post Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:14 pm

Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

In the near future, I will be buying a new CRD diesel 4x4, and am concerned about the reports of bad fuel, hideously expensive repairs to fuel pumps and injectors etc.

* What does the general populous think about installing additional filtration, water detection etc?
* What do you use and how much did it cost?
* Will the additional measures affect the vehicle warranty?
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the gun

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Post Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:27 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

Get one fitted on ur way home from the dealer. Local diesel shop supplied a filter/ water trap for my 200 that screens down to 2 micron. Toyota will have a sook that u have fitted one.
Those who choose to drive in the mud do so because they can't drive the rocks.
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MogLux

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Post Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

I work for a major agricaulture producer within the technical support department and warranty group, and if we have request such as these our position is to say NO you can not fit it..

The fuel systems are designed for the machine/car/truck etc.. by engineering and what you intend on doing is to fit a finer micron filter into the system before the OME filter and bypass valve..
So when the filter you fitted blocks (with no blockage indicator on the dash unlike the OME filter) and staves a high pressure common rail fuel system on fuel and starts cavitating you not only invaild warranty but you also fark your pump etc..

If you really want one fitted to your car i suggest you have the dealership fit it then

If it was me id rather change the OME filter more often ... last i checked high pressure common rail systems arent cheap.
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V.W.Dave

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

On our fleet of 40 odd utes we put second filters on 4 of them. After 6 month 2 of those utes had the pumps fail because of the extra load put on a system that wasn't designed for it. All up the second filters cost $300 each to fit up. Caused around $8000 damage. Now we just replace all our factory filters every 10000ks. Filter are cheap insurance.

(the utes were Nissan D22s)
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pigletracing

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:10 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

Hay guys, I too am concerned with what I have herd about bad fuel & there is so much out there. after just blowing up my last CRD I have now bought another CRD (I know I must have rocks in my head) I went to H#####Y DSL with my concerns & they suggested a replacement filter that has a water trap with an alarm that lets you know when its needed to be emptied.
They have been fitting these for toyota dealerships for a while now apparently. They say(ill put it in my terms as they were very technical & im not) its the extremely high pressure that the fuel in a CRD is pushed threw that when an impurity is added it can damage the injectors (if a large amt) if it manages to get pass the injectors then the damage will get the pump.
with the smaller amts that go threw all the time they say the sensors make the fuel burn at a different rate or heat or something different anyway (I must have dozed off for a second there) witch causes a buildup on the top of the piston. basically that makes your piston go bang .
what are your thoughts on a replacement filter with water traps & warning alarms, not just an additional filter.

cheers Piggy.

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MogLux

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:24 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

pigletracing wrote:what are your thoughts on a replacement filter with water traps & warning alarms, not just an additional filter.

cheers Piggy.

Ian McClenahan "Piglet"
TJM 0411444897
piglet@4x4megastore.com.au



The issue you come across is where the dealership/manufacture will give you the correct micron rating for the system.. If you add a finer filter this can starve the pump etc.. of the correct fuel flow.. there fore causing the same issue.
Updating the filter and everything else as you speak is not worth it as you would be replacing it with the same filter rating. This is just my companys stand , others maybe different.
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CRUZAAMAD

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:53 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

i have heard on lcool, toyota dealers up north are installing them pre delivery.
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the gun

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

MogLux wrote:I work for a major agricaulture producer within the technical support department and warranty group, and if we have request such as these our position is to say NO you can not fit it..

The fuel systems are designed for the machine/car/truck etc.. by engineering and what you intend on doing is to fit a finer micron filter into the system before the OME filter and bypass valve..
So when the filter you fitted blocks (with no blockage indicator on the dash unlike the OME filter) and staves a high pressure common rail fuel system on fuel and starts cavitating you not only invaild warranty but you also fark your pump etc..

If you really want one fitted to your car i suggest you have the dealership fit it then

If it was me id rather change the OME filter more often ... last i checked high pressure common rail systems arent cheap.


The filter I have fitted is post the factory filter. The 200 series has a pressure sensor that monitors fuel pressure to the pump and the filter I have fitted wont trigger the senser. The factory filter is clearly not up to the task of separating the water molecules from the diesel fuel, if it was we wouldn't b commenting on this thead. And replacing the factory filter more often isn't filtering the water out either. A new filter fitted slowly gets better as it slowly blocks up to the stage where even the fuel can't get though. I'm not saying that u shouldnt be replacing a water logged filters.
Those who choose to drive in the mud do so because they can't drive the rocks.
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rowenb

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

What about the pure flow air dog ( a member gave a link a while ago about these) for the new vehicles? Haven't heard much about them or people running them only what i read from their page.
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tweak'e

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Post Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:30 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

V.W.Dave wrote:On our fleet of 40 odd utes we put second filters on 4 of them. After 6 month 2 of those utes had the pumps fail because of the extra load put on a system that wasn't designed for it. All up the second filters cost $300 each to fit up. Caused around $8000 damage. Now we just replace all our factory filters every 10000ks. Filter are cheap insurance.

(the utes were Nissan D22s)


if it was the zd30 engined D22's then its not surprising as they run VP style pumps and cannot handle extra restriction on the pumps. having said that they will flag timing error code if filter is blocked up to much.
they need a lift pump. interesting enough they come standard overseas with a sedimenter as well as the filter.

most common rails will be fine with extra filters, till they block up. but pumps failing because filters block up is going to happen regardless of what filter(s) you run.
you can always add a lift pump, which some manufactures have stock standard.
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tweak'e

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Post Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

rowenb wrote:What about the pure flow air dog ( a member gave a link a while ago about these) for the new vehicles? Haven't heard much about them or people running them only what i read from their page.

my only problem with FAAS or Airdog is the small fuel filter they have. better to have the standard filter between it and the tank.
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rowenb

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Post Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:23 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

But the air dog would overcome the possible fuel starvation and you could just have the standard or aftermarket before it right?
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old lux

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Post Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:08 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

well up here in darwin my bussiness we fit 2 micron racor fuel/water separators. does the job. fitted mainly to toyota(common rial also) the new hiluxs and cruisers.

havent had a issue and have sold over 150 units with no comebacks as of yet. the issue is people not using a quality brand with small inlet and outlet ports on the filter causing the restiction and not giving enough flow.

the car we fit them on go bush all the time and are owned by local land councils and live in rural communitys.

the fit them befor the factory filter without cutting any factory hoses and suplly the factory hose in the gove box incase the filter blocks and they dont have a spare on them and they can go back to factory fuel without any issues.
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evanstaniland

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Post Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:11 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

I recon the shittest thing is the fuel filter on the landcruiser utes arnt a serviceable item as in not on any factory services! Toyota dealer told me it gets changed whel the light comes on! Wtf!
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tweak'e

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Post Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:51 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

rowenb wrote:But the air dog would overcome the possible fuel starvation and you could just have the standard or aftermarket before it right?

yes.
also afaik they have adjustable output pressure.
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Shadow

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Post Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

evanstaniland wrote:I recon the shittest thing is the fuel filter on the landcruiser utes arnt a serviceable item as in not on any factory services! Toyota dealer told me it gets changed whel the light comes on! Wtf!



there is a sensor on the fuel filter housing that is measuring the pressure drop across the filter, when it gets too high, the light comes on, and you replace the filter

That's the smart way of doing it if you ask me. Changing a filter every X amount of k's is the stupid way of doing it, since most of the time your replacing it before you need to.
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evanstaniland

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Post Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

For $35 it's cheaper to over change the filter than the $13k fuel system! I changed mine b4 the light and it was blacker than trouser pants! But no light! Stupid idea!
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Shadow

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Post Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

evanstaniland wrote:For $35 it's cheaper to over change the filter than the $13k fuel system! I changed mine b4 the light and it was blacker than trouser pants! But no light! Stupid idea!


I dont know alot about filtration, but from what i do know, a dirty sieve type filter works better than a clean one. The flow rate drops as the filter gets saturated with filtered particles, but the performance of collecting the finest particles improves dramatically.

You could run 20 tanks of good clean diesel through your filter and it will still flow enough diesel not to bother the injector pump. change your filter.

Then you can go down to Dodgy-Sam's Fuel and Goat Sales" and in 100km your brand new filter can be clogged, and the light will come on.

If toyota didn't have the sensor and light (they dont have one on 100series), you would keep driving, damaging your injector pump due to the very significant restriction.
03 HDJ100R GXL / 94 FJ45-80
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evanstaniland

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Post Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

I've put pretty dirty diesel thru mine regularly and no light. Plenty of shit in there tho!
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:46 pm

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

evanstaniland wrote:I've put pretty dirty diesel thru mine regularly and no light. Plenty of shit in there tho!



your not doing anything wrong changing it regularly, but i just dont think you need to.

the sensor and light exists to tell you when the filter needs changing. theres really no need to change it any more often, although it wont hurt.
03 HDJ100R GXL / 94 FJ45-80
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Post Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Buying a new diesel 4by - Fuel Filtration

Thanks for your input to this question. I think I'll leave the filtration system as original, but order a spare filter when I get the vehicle and leave it in the car until the light (if it has one) comes on. The filter has a glass bowl and some electric wires going to it, so I assume it has some from of warning.

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