MQ springover help???

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: Camden, Sydney

Hey guys,
Im looking at springing over my MQ, i went to TJM and they are asking about $3500 to do it, i quite politely told them "no thanx".
Just wondering whats involved in doing it yourself, getting the bits and pieces needed made up so it can pass an engineers certificate, possibly cutting the cost down by quite abit, Anyone done this or knows whats involved or the costs? Would be great

cheers,

screwy

Joined: 19 Dec 2002 Location: Sydney

whats involved, i took a quck look into it a few months back when i had an MQ, well, whats involved, 4 new spring perches, extended brake lines, new U bolts to replace old shitty ones, and different lengths if needed, High steer, and to do it properly rotate the steer knuckles to put back to factory specs. im not sure if thats all but thats as far as i got when i looked into it, now i have a GQ.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Toowoomba.Qld

If you are fairly handy with an oxy and a mig it isn't that hard.To keep it cheap you can make the new perches yourself out of heavy wall RHS.If you don't go crazy with the height you won't have to rotate the Knuckles(I didn't and i drive mine everywhere)You will have to get both drive shafts lengthened and a bit of modifying of the front diffhousing to suit a u-bolt flip.I also added another crossmember to mine so i could run a track-rod on the rear diff.
Other than that it's just the normal 5hit like shocks,brakelines etc.
I'll send you some pics if you're interested Cool

Joined: 20 Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane

chaos 4x4 have a kit that could be worth checking out. I think they are based in sydney.

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:53 am

Tip.... use one rear and one front U bolt from a wrecker on the driverside front diff. The rear U bolt will fit around the cast iron section of the diff provided you drill a 3/4 inch hole in the webb brace, then "massage" the area where the U bolt is to go with an angle grinder to ensure a neat fit. The front U bolt will fit as sweet as around the tube that comes out of the diffhousing.
Use "castcraft" welding rods to weld the new spring perche to the diff housing. use a "stop start" welding technique and "chip" the weld between each stop (this is called "peening"). You dont have to peen the weld as much it you use a DC welder.
I found it difficult to find a steel tube that was 65mm square to make the perches ( the springs are 65mm wide), so I pressed mine up using 6mm plate.
hope this helps

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: Camden, Sydney

Thanks guys, has been positive, now at least i know whats involved and how to do it. Im gonna have a look around for the bits in the next coupla days.

cheers,

screwy

Joined: 30 Aug 2003 Location: The Alice

Hi guys, anymore info about the springover would be pretty helpful Smile

ive been looking at my front diff brake lines and it seems there is only one line that needs to be extended, is that right?

also, with the springover conversion, how much do the drive shafts pull out if you dont get them extended? btw, mines a LWB mq 85, iam not sure if that makes any diff?

also from as the distance for the rear drive shaft is a lot greater than on the swb, i guess the increased travel isnt going to be much of an issue?

any other insights or hints would be kindly appreciated.

also, one other thing, what does the car drive like when the springover has been completed? is it safe to drive at speed? say 120km/h?

kind regards
Vanne

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:51 pm

You will have to extend both brakelines beacuse the axles will still move downwards after the SOD conversion, you'll need to add about 200mm to each line.
As for the driveshafts.... I cant recall the exact measurement but from memory its add 50mm to the front shaft and 65mm to the rear, they will have to be lengthened as there is not enough spline up inside the slider.

Measure the length of both driveshafts BEFORE you remove them to do the SOD conversion, then once the conversion is FINISHED bolt em back up and remeasure em. Subtract the original measurement from the lengthened measurement.... this will give you the amount you will have to add to the length of the driveshafts. Once you have this figure ( for example lets say its 50mm) deduct 10% from that measurement and there's the new tailshaft additional measurement which = 45mm in our example.

The springpack may need to be altered aswell to give a better height or to level the 4wd out better, that will depend on the type of springpack you have. With mine I removed 3 leaves from each pak to soften the ride up aswell as allowing it to articulate better offroad, I have since found that 2 leaves would have been enough as I have done in SOD conversion since, (must put one leaf back in mine oneday !!!)

As for the driving issue..... it will be different to drive than before, especially bodyroll, mine is most noticeable around street corners at the 50 to 60 kph mark moreso if ya going a tad quick !, but out on the open road I can honestly say there's little diff. I've had mine up over the 140+ mark both on and off road and it handled fine sofar. Bout the weirdest feeling is when you stop on a hill facing down pull the handbrake on and take ya foot off of the brake pedel, the vehcile tends to "squat" down, I still chuckle everytime this happens !!!
It took me about a week to get used to mine and since then I cant handle driving one that isnt lifted just doesnt feel right !!!!

Joined: 30 Aug 2003 Location: The Alice

Wow, that sounds alright.
How much roughly would it be to get both drive shafts extended? any idea roughly?
and also, the rear conversion looks pretty simple, but the front looks a bit daunting, esp the right hand (driver) side.

Could someone run me trough how to do this exactly and maybe a link to some picies (close up of the front driver side) would be very nice.

also, whats the deal with rego? will i have to convert it back before getting my pink slip next year?

kind regards

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:46 am

The front diff is soooooo EASY.....use one rear and one front U bolt (get em from a wrecker) on the driverside front diff. The rear U bolt will fit around the cast iron section of the diff provided you drill a 3/4 inch hole in the webb brace, then "massage" the area where the U bolt is to go with an angle grinder to ensure a neat fit. The front U bolt will fit as sweet as around the tube that comes out of the diffhousing.
Use "castcraft" welding rods to weld the new spring perche to the diff housing. use a "stop start" welding technique and "chip" the weld between each stop (this is called "peening"). You dont have to peen the weld as much it you use a DC welder.
I found it difficult to find a steel tube that was 65mm square to make the perches ( the springs are 65mm wide), so I pressed mine up using 6mm plate.
As for the lengthened tailshafts....thats the scary bit, at a stab in the dark they will cost up around the $350.00 mark for the pair !!! But if you can handle a welder and have some way of aligning the bits up (ie a lathe) then its fairly easy to do... I did mine then I was going to send em to be balenced, but there is nill vibration so never bothered with mine or the others !!!.
Pics...mmmmmmmmm well one day ...hopefully in the not to distant future I will get the website up n running and the pics I have will be there....one day !!!!
hope this helps

Joined: 30 Aug 2003 Location: The Alice

can't wait to see the website Smile

iam off to the wreakers on the weekend and hope to locate a rear u bolt and some other stuff. Hope to get started on this real soon.
how much will this raise the car btw? as iam not looking for a huge raise, all iam realy after is abou 2 inches or so, but a body lift is out of the question for me, as the rear bumper is welded to the chasis for the tire carrier (it flew outwards once while driving and nearly wiped out some other car, luckely it didnt) Smile

if theres another way to get about 2 inches, id like to hear about it btw, ive seen one guy who had springs welded to the shock carriers, but that looked pretty wierd.

kind regards
Vanne

Joined: 08 Nov 2002 Location: wheeling the guppy

this may already been mentioned but why not go 2 inch lift springs

spoa would net approx 5 inch??????

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

2" springs are stiffer, to get good flex soa and take out leaves to flattenthem, aim for 4" total lift.

65x6mm is a standard size RHS, I just used some to make some spring perches for a soa on a 75 series cruiser.

guys talk up MQ080 tell him how much he needs a springover!

cheers

Brian

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:32 am

SOA 4wd's RULE no ifs no buts......
Praise the lifted & be closer to 'him' with great views ( specially on hot days in city traffic Shocked

then fit up a set of 35' or 37" and she will go places you never thought possiable !!!!

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Location: kinglake

guys i am thinking about doin this spoa thing too, was just wonderin if u could use a drive shaft out of a l.w.b model for a shorty once the soa is complete? or is it easier to modify the original one?
i hope to be able to run 35s easily after this

Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Location: Melbourne

V8Patrol - what is the lenght of the wheelbase in a SWB patrol?
Do you have any problems with the angles of your drive shafts at all?
Is is quite a bit more tippy?
Thanks
Dave

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:02 am

Standard wheelbase is.............2500mm ...or 98.4 inches
I extended it by 20mm ( 10 front & 10 rear ) but have seen them extended by 50mm ( 2 inches) on the front, and 35mm on the rear (1.5 inches)
The 10 mm I move them tends to put the axle more central in the springpak but I doubt if it has any real effect.
As for the universal angles I have had no problems so far in 15,000k's but I did do a diff twist on both diffs, the rear was simple..... before I welded up the new spring perches I put a jack under the flange ( bit the tailshaft bolts to) and jacked it up so the line towards the transfer was almost straight.
Never place a tailshaft dead straight... unis NEED a slight angle to work otherwise they wear a very slight groove (30+ tho usually) in the cup and become much weaker in a shorter period of time.
If you have a look under your 4bee you'll see that the diff/tailshaft angle isn't straight and thats from the factory the angle varies from 4wd to 4wd but is usuall set between 2 to 5 degres off the diff.

I also "twist" the front diff and alter the castor angle to 10 degrees. The twist takes a little care but anyone with an oxy/accetlene & a welder can do it, simply put....
set up the diff the same as the rear one ( jack up the flange to get a good angle & weld the perches on), then where the knuckles are welded on to the diff tubes take an anglegrinder to it and cut into the weld NO DEEPER than 6 mm, heat up the axletube for the first 50mm (2inches) and using a long bar placed through the kingpin holes rotate the hubs to the desired angle. Do one side at a time and as you are doing the second one make sure that the two hubs line up ( dangerous if one is @ 3 degrees and the other is @ say 5 degrees !!!) allow it to cool.... double check the angles... use WIA16TC rods ( arcwelder) to reweld the hubs to the difftube.
As for the castor angle I run ( 10 degrees) it may seem a huge increase over standard(3 degrees) but I find it's a brilliant angle. Reasons being...

tighter turning circle,more bite from the tyres offroad when turning,and for road use...No more steering shimmies EVER!! it runs straight as a die with ya hands off the wheel from 20kph to 140+ and is so much more responsive in cornering, Down side....slightly heavier steering onroad @ slow speeds IE reverse parking, backing trailers. Cure...fit pwr steering !!!

"Tippy" at first it was a tad concerning ( first street corner).... but now I'm used to it (took about a weeks driving) and have adjusted my driving to the Mods. A mate (ChevyMQ) had never driven a SOD before till a couple of weeks ago and he got used to it in a couple of hours of driving, His MQ is nearly finished, SOD highlift...35"BFG MT's...350 chev...new interior...and full respray.... pics soon !!!....its black...ALL BLACK !!!...winch etc etc etc....trick unit !!!
Mine off road....its just as stable and I have put it places that I wouldnt have (or couldnt have) before the mods, I own 3 MQ's and I plan to do the others sooner or later, I'm that pleased with it.
I'm currently experimenting with the idea of replacing the unis that go to the transfer with CV's..... I'll let ya know how that pans out.

Joined: 26 Jun 2003

soa would result in 37's clearing easily.... hmmmm dumbdunce I may have a task for you

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

if we can get a stack of photos especially of the front then I'm keen. I'm wondering why it was necessary to heat up the front axle to get the knuckles to twist?? with the cruiser axle it's as simple as, just cut through the weld, insert breaker bar through kingpin holes, twist, weld, done. the cruiser knuckles are only a light press fit in the axle tube, are the patrol knuckles an interference fit?

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:02 am

Three reasons for heating them....
1.. the knuckles are pressed in at the factory and there is a certain amount of shrinkage when they are welded. Also over afew years a small amount of rust/corrosion builds up between the axletube and knuckle, the heat makes the twisting easy.( I've tried em cold and I couldnt move em with a 6 foot crowbar !!!! )
2.. Once the desired angle is achived with the twist and the knuckle/axletube cool you all ready have a very tight fit.... tech name"shrink fit" or "interference fit", the weld then becomes added strength to an allready strong connection.
3.. the heat also burns off any contaminets (oil,grease,paint ect) and leaves a clean uncontaminated surface to weld.... therefore better penatration when welding.

p/s I've got heaps of pics but the scanner isn't working at the moment, Thats why I also havent been able to finish the web page...tech due this week I hope !

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

ok I'll get the #25 oxy tip ready!

my scanner works, bring those photos here!

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:17 am

give me a break.... Im in VIC !!!.... spoke to tech and he "promised" to fix it on wednesday !!

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

last I checked, australia post would deliver photos interstate Wink

Joined: 26 Jun 2003

would we still keep the body lift also?
dumbdunce, i'll do you a deal... i'll build you a "track" if you perform a springover Very Happy

- sounds fair to me

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:51 pm

Once the SOA is done I doubt you'll need a body lift too.
Problems with bodylifts are... bullbars,sidesteps, &
back bumperbars dont rise with the body... so they either
look like shyte or have to be modified to put the 4x4 back
into proportion (not so bad when the lift is only an inch or so).
Bodylifts also dont increase ground clearance as the lowest
part is still the chassis, inparticular the bash plates and crossmembers.

Everytime I got stuck I'd back up a tad and getout n have a look,
marks in the earth said that the diffs were just slidding over but
I couldnt get through ??? next thought was must be the body
hooking up !!, wasn't till I actually had a look when I was
stuck oneday that I saw the crossmember under the bellhousing
cutting into the earth like a graderblade, as soon as I backed up
the front diff was pushing the earth back down into its normal
position, (its that point when I normally got out and had a look).
I wasn't getting stuck as such, I was cutting my way through!!!