Nutter Engineering Turbo Conversions (Dial Up Will Die)

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: yallourn north,victoria

were doing this to our 4 b in about a month Very Happy

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

marko wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

Does that mean you get 250rwkw with just a tune, intake and a exhaust upgrade. thats a big increase in hp from standard for 5.7 gen111, aren't they only around 255kw engine. Are your figures from a egine in a holden or the engine in a patrol.
If that is in a patrol you must have magic tune going on, don't foget patrols can lose up to 50% depending on diff, tyres etc, through the drive line.
So that make it a arund a 450hp engine just with some slight mods.
That is cheap power. How much to do that. I might pull the old shit box 5L out and put one of those in Very Happy

Its true mate with small 1 5/8 primary 4 into 1's, 2.5 inch dual catback exhaust and tune through the commodore gearbox and diff they belt out 240+kw at the rears.

VT's make a touch less due to slightly less efficient intake manifold, but VX, VY and VZ all the same internals.

Now what most people don't know is the 225kw base motor and HSV variants all have same heads and cam, there only tuned better with addition of exhaust. The only exception the the rule is the 300kw factory motors as they had C4B heads and cam to pass emissions with the larger power output so they are capable of a bit more. But with that said any of the base motors will make 300+ at the flywheel with exhaust and tune!

Video below is mine, 0-100 in 4.6 seconds on cheap ass street tyres (nankangs) and 1/4 in 12.8 on same tyres at 1800KG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWy5sG9przQ

Its unfortunate but the 5.0 holden needs a lot of work to match it.

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

GRINCH wrote:

hey nutter are you running the gas research closed loop system on yours or is it just the basic throttle body. have you had a chance to work out what sort of fuel economy your getting?

Its a 440 mixer running B2 converter, blow through of course.

haven't worked out highway economy buy even with my thrashing its ass day to day in city/suburban driving it does 400+kays to 95 litres gas. So with a normal driver probably be quite good.

Highway figures yet to come!!

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

adam penfold wrote:

were doing this to our 4 b in about a month Very Happy

I have bought all the parts for my mates so its on the way in the next month or soo too!

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: yallourn north,victoria

sweet. were doing a turbo motor. forged pistons and stuff efi. it's gonna be sweet hey nutter have you got msn so i can chat to ya about it over there ?

Joined: 13 Jul 2003

NutterGQ wrote:

marko wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

Does that mean you get 250rwkw with just a tune, intake and a exhaust upgrade. thats a big increase in hp from standard for 5.7 gen111, aren't they only around 255kw engine. Are your figures from a egine in a holden or the engine in a patrol.
If that is in a patrol you must have magic tune going on, don't foget patrols can lose up to 50% depending on diff, tyres etc, through the drive line.
So that make it a arund a 450hp engine just with some slight mods.
That is cheap power. How much to do that. I might pull the old shit box 5L out and put one of those in Very Happy

Its true mate with small 1 5/8 primary 4 into 1's, 2.5 inch dual catback exhaust and tune through the commodore gearbox and diff they belt out 240+kw at the rears.

VT's make a touch less due to slightly less efficient intake manifold, but VX, VY and VZ all the same internals.

Now what most people don't know is the 225kw base motor and HSV variants all have same heads and cam, there only tuned better with addition of exhaust. The only exception the the rule is the 300kw factory motors as they had C4B heads and cam to pass emissions with the larger power output so they are capable of a bit more. But with that said any of the base motors will make 300+ at the flywheel with exhaust and tune!

Video below is mine, 0-100 in 4.6 seconds on cheap ass street tyres (nankangs) and 1/4 in 12.8 on same tyres at 1800KG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWy5sG9przQ

Its unfortunate but the 5.0 holden needs a lot of work to match it.

You reckon it would last in race condition. 3 hours of pretty much on the rev limiter. what sought of power down low, say between 1500 and 3000.
So including the engine, how much to get 300rwkw? Very Happy

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

adam penfold wrote:

sweet. were doing a turbo motor. forged pistons and stuff efi. it's gonna be sweet hey nutter have you got msn so i can chat to ya about it over there ?

My mates is N/A too, with the high comp from the N/A motor it spools up faster and has heaps of power off boost so your fuel economy is better too.

My next bottom end wont be forged just be a balanced bottom end with good set of hyperutectics.

I have PM'd ya my msn addy

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

marko wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

marko wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

Does that mean you get 250rwkw with just a tune, intake and a exhaust upgrade. thats a big increase in hp from standard for 5.7 gen111, aren't they only around 255kw engine. Are your figures from a egine in a holden or the engine in a patrol.
If that is in a patrol you must have magic tune going on, don't foget patrols can lose up to 50% depending on diff, tyres etc, through the drive line.
So that make it a arund a 450hp engine just with some slight mods.
That is cheap power. How much to do that. I might pull the old shit box 5L out and put one of those in Very Happy

Its true mate with small 1 5/8 primary 4 into 1's, 2.5 inch dual catback exhaust and tune through the commodore gearbox and diff they belt out 240+kw at the rears.

VT's make a touch less due to slightly less efficient intake manifold, but VX, VY and VZ all the same internals.

Now what most people don't know is the 225kw base motor and HSV variants all have same heads and cam, there only tuned better with addition of exhaust. The only exception the the rule is the 300kw factory motors as they had C4B heads and cam to pass emissions with the larger power output so they are capable of a bit more. But with that said any of the base motors will make 300+ at the flywheel with exhaust and tune!

Video below is mine, 0-100 in 4.6 seconds on cheap ass street tyres (nankangs) and 1/4 in 12.8 on same tyres at 1800KG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWy5sG9przQ

Its unfortunate but the 5.0 holden needs a lot of work to match it.

You reckon it would last in race condition. 3 hours of pretty much on the rev limiter. what sought of power down low, say between 1500 and 3000.
So including the engine, how much to get 300rwkw? Very Happy

Happily take the abuse, there are guys running turbo/supercharged units at the factory 10.5:1 static compression on track days no probs, its all in the tune.

How much it will cost depends on how patient you are but motors can be bought from $1500-$2000 or complete cars for 3K-5K (smashed).

you need extractors, fruck knows if you can cut and extend commy ones or if you need to go custom, either single 3 inch or dual 2.5 inch pipes, and you need $400-$900 for a tune.

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Hey for those of you who asked for fuel figures, I finally did a long highway run and it used 19-20litres per 100km, that was with 35inch tyres, 2 people and 2 spare tyres on board.

It rained the whole way from my house to loch sport some 250km away and the whole way back without a break, the aircon was running the whole time too.

With the old setup the figures where much much worse, with the 31's it should be better again.

Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Location: pomona,sunshine coast

thats not bad economy mine was about that with 31's and no turbo on petrol. my throttle bodies on its way all i need to do is find a good turbo Very Happy

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Brunsy wrote:

Mild steel is fine for pipework, some of my old cars are still getting about 12 years later on the same engines, turbo/cooler combos. The internal surfaces do get coated with a greasy film as the turbo seals will let some oily mist thru and as will the PCV if connected. If in doubt pull a oil soaked rag thru your pipes at service time.
Nice Job Nutter, let me know how these ebay exaust manifolds hold out as im itching to get my hands on another RB30 this time into my shorty.

Hey Guys its been a while now covered 30,000 kays and thought i would give you all an update...

Ok the questions you wanted answered...

Fuel economy on 31's mostly city cycle 15-16 per 100kays
On 35's around 20-22litres full city cycle

Have only done one full highway run in that time and that was 500 kays of highway, 35 inch tyres, air con, headlights wipers and rain for 6 hours non of the accessories where turned off, returned 19-20 per 100 with 2 people and luggage on board.

Reliability has been fantastic, which is what I hoped as i didn't cheap out anywhere (E.G I didn't use heater hose for oil feed and return lol, yep saw it done on someones car)....The car gets spun to 6000rpm every single day of the week without fail. I have always been rough on my cars and this is no exception.

The first manifold cracked nearly straight away so I got another under warranty and so far so good, only thing different this time is i cut the flange in the middle so its only 3 runners to each half of the flange. So far its holding fine no repeats yet.

The motor itself has not had an issue at all, runs 10psi all day at 9.2 static comp, I'm fitting water injection soon and going to try bump some more timing into it without touching boost.

My cooler pipes have not rusted/flaked or fallen apart due to being mild steel lol

I am now on my 3rd clutch though the first one died as i left the driveway, the second lasted 5 months, a few days in the bush, approx 300+ launches on the road and several other stupid stunts lol so it got a new one last week......Pics to follow.

I have no blow of valve still, flutter like a mad man and suprise suprise no end or side play on the shaft, so much for blowing it up hahaha....maybe if it was an Ebay special turbo it would have let go.

Probably in the early part of 2008 im fitting new head/cam and second gas converter going to try and squeeze some more power out of it as between now and then as its going to get very heavy.....well thats my excuse anyway.

Also since my conversion I have done 2 more identical and both are running fine, one is a tow/tradies car the other a daily driver.

What else have I missed? what else does anyone want to know?

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: yallourn north,victoria

jee, wat brand clutch nutter.

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Excedy, the clutch works great the other cars I did both have them but neither has destroyed one even the tow car. Problem with mine is the 300+ launches and then slapping into second and spinning some more Embarassed

Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Location: Townsville/Middle Swan WA

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

i like a your style ... video and pics or ban Twisted Evil

Joined: 26 May 2006 Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Hoonz wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

i like a your style ... video and pics or ban Twisted Evil

X2

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Mulisha wrote:

Hoonz wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

Mulisha wrote:

How do 5.0L and 5.7L v8's compare with the Tb42 turbo and RB30 turbo?

What RWKW or RWHP and tourqe figures are we looking at from the 4 ?

Cheers

Rick.

I'm a V8 boy I own a gen 3 VX Clubby and 520ci ford big block in my XB coupe, from an unopened Gen 3 you make 240-245rwkw unopened, great thing is there all the same except the C4B motor, so even a VT exec makes a good donor car.

VX has slightly better intake, vy onwards have higher ring tension, power wise not much in it. Problem is there running a plastic intake so the only way you can run LPG is to inject em or put an after market alloy manifold that costs as much as the motor.

I know the 5.0 is popular with some of you here but they suck. Save your breath I have done em up for customers and in my opinion there a waste of money, with a reasonable cam, extractors, pipes, tune and all other associated bits they only make 165kw to 180kw, you can buy a GEN 3 these days from $1500-$2000 much better proposition.

i like a your style ... video and pics or ban Twisted Evil

X2

There where videos on you tube of the coupe but there gone now as they where attracting the wrong kind of attention lol I do have pics of the coupe from its first build though if ya keen.

Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Location: Townsville/Middle Swan WA

i wanna hear it on song! 520cubes *drool*

pics yeh put some up!

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Here are some pics from the first build, this is when I got it from my ad at age 16 until i was 21 when I completed it.....yep it was a burt out no heater, no dash no nothing!!! and rust holes like footballs...

I drove it daily like that for 2 years and after it accumulated a whole bunch of dents and scratches from disrespecting pricks i pulled it off the road and started from scratch again, new paint, new wheels, new interior and yep new motor!!, but that build is sitill in process now!

Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Location: Townsville/Middle Swan WA

shit hot love the coupes armsup

Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Location: Check your six.

NutterGQ wrote:

Here are some pics from the first build, this is when I got it from my ad at age 16 until i was 21 when I completed it.....yep it was a burt out no heater, no dash no nothing!!! and rust holes like footballs...

Nice rebuild. Wasn't a big fan of the two door due to it being so fat in the rear, but because good ones are rare these days, like the Chargers, they have grown on me. 1977 1, 2. Bathurst. Sorry I digress.

Anyhoo, I am a bit worried about the right rear tyre, seems to be delaminating. Wink

Was the picture taken at Karingal?

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

My dad had it since new so I grew up with it, the fat ass is what makes me like em, its not really done on any other aussie car....

And the tyre was nearly due for replacement, no its not in Karingal it was a Dandy Backroad Special lol

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

Just a quick update sorry for the bump I'm sure it will drop again.......we are 1 year on nearly 60,000 kays, my turbo didn't blow up due to not having a BOV suprise suprise.

The intake pipes haven't rusted a single crusty bit because there oiled up from the catch can vapors and is otherwise running as it was the day i did it.

I just purchased a whole bunch of stuff to install water injection and maybe make some more power too, waiting on the last component to come from the US, will have some new times and power to report soon I hope.

Its my first time playing with water injection and I didn't buy it in kit form rather I got the pieces from a mate who happens to work in the industry lets hope it was money well spent!

Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Location: Mornington/ Victoria

We used to make a Falcon 6 turbo system when I was at the Gasresearch Performance Centre and used water injection as it was a low buget non-intercooled system, also on many CAPA centrifical blowers.
I doubt you will see any improvement based on the many I fitted in the past, it works when the dynamic compression is too high for the octane rating of the fuel. On 10 psi you should be able to run optimum timing on LPG without knock. It can help with heat soak though, if running flat out for some time as the engine heats up it becomes more likely to knock(late model cars deal with this with computer controlled timing).
Power dosent go up continuously with more timing, in fact it will go down again, optimum timing is when the cylinder pressure is maximum just after TDC, timing allows the time necessary for the flame kurnel to propagate. Some engines will drop in power before they detonate, some will detonate before peak power, it is the latter type that water injection may help as it slows the speed of combustion.
If an engine detonates before peak power the cylinder pressure is exceeding the octane rating, wider cam LCA lower compression, less boost and sometimes lower temperatures and improved water flow(reduced hot spotting) are required to get the engine right.
I had a recent example of a turbo V8 that took 15 degrees more total timing with a water pump and improved bleeding of the cooling system and made 40 rwkW more on the same boost.

Cheers

Joel

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: yallourn north,victoria

best of luck nutter. shall go good.

what fuel econmy you getting?

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

im getting greedy going the second converter and a couple more psi.....water is mostly for when I can't get BP gas out bush and it pings its chops off, should increase the threshold . also im running 10psi at 9.2 static comp so its reasonable. my injection is basic, its high pressure post turbo/cooler triggered by hobbs switch...see how itgoes if it kills some ping and nothing else it will be worth it.

on a side note I blew another clutch last night ordered a brass button fitting It tomorrow, the first clutch lasted 6 months to the day nearly, and now 6 months later same thing!!! lol time for less manners more poke.

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: yallourn north,victoria

wich clutch u running mate?

dads got a pbr heavy duty and its starting to slip ?

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

The first 2 where both excedy sports toughs, this one is about as far as I can go without going twin plate etc lol.....hardly surprising though both of them have had a lot of launches as in hundreds!

Joined: 24 Sep 2006

http://www.xtremeclutch.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=14

Try these, just bought an Xtra Heavy Duty for Patrol I think they said its 40% over std clamping force.

Dazza

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Location: Melb S/E

I should clarify the exedys i had where great, good feel light pedal and happily pulled my car a tandem trailer and another lwb gq through the mountains with no sign of slip.....but I dont drive it like most people do I never have.....so I went the brass button today we will see how much longer this lasts over the organic

Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Location: Mornington/ Victoria

A brass button will only last if you dont slip it, no riding the clutch to winch (not that that is an easy task with a button!)

Joel