Security Screens

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

I ordered security screens for the windows across the front of my house, so I can leave the windows wide open for breezes & not have to worry about resident low-lifes.

They were installed yesterday, while I was out. They've been screwed on - from the outside.

Is it just me, or does this sort of defeat the purpose?

To piss me off further, the screens are a cream colour to match the rest of the window frames, but the screws are cad plated - they stand out like the proverbial.

Looking from the inside, many of the screw threads are visible - they're only screwed through a thin piece of aluminium angle. One screw hasn't screwed into anything! And one screen has a two foot scratch in the coating. cussing

I've already called the supplier and left a message telling them I'm not happy. I'm inclined to tell them to take the lot away, and never darken my doorstep again. Or was I expecting too much?

Anybody here in the industry?

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:48 am

Did they use normal screws or security head screws
The problem I have seen is that the installers can be pretty much be anyone with no training at all. I come across it all the time with security doors where I need to make adjustments to the lock.....even had to on my mums place who paid a fortune for a door

Dazz

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

-Scott- wrote:

I ordered security screens for the windows across the front of my house, so I can leave the windows wide open for breezes & not have to worry about resident low-lifes.

They were installed yesterday, while I was out. They've been screwed on - from the outside.

Is it just me, or does this sort of defeat the purpose?

To piss me off further, the screens are a cream colour to match the rest of the window frames, but the screws are cad plated - they stand out like the proverbial.

Looking from the inside, many of the screw threads are visible - they're only screwed through a thin piece of aluminium angle. One screw hasn't screwed into anything! And one screen has a two foot scratch in the coating. cussing

I've already called the supplier and left a message telling them I'm not happy. I'm inclined to tell them to take the lot away, and never darken my doorstep again. Or was I expecting too much?

Anybody here in the industry?

Can you get some pictures for me? I used to manufacture and install these when i first left school. Actually did it for my last year of school as well. And there are lots of different style aluminium windows that require different attaching methods. But there should be no reason for them to have ever screwed them on from the outside.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:11 am

Things were a bit different way back when you were doing it Tony, back then Tradesman cared about how they did there job, although there are still a few old school tradies around that care about workmanship Wink

BJ

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

bj42turbo wrote:

Things were a bit different way back when you were doing it Tony, back then Tradesman cared about how they did there job Very Happy

although there are still a few old school tradies around that care about workmanship Wink

BJ

How old do you think i am Question

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:14 am

RUFF wrote:

bj42turbo wrote:

Things were a bit different way back when you were doing it Tony, back then Tradesman cared about how they did there job Very Happy

although there are still a few old school tradies around that care about workmanship Wink

BJ

How old do you think i am Question

21

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

RUFF wrote:

Can you get some pictures for me? I used to manufacture and install these when i first left school. Actually did it for my last year of school as well. And there are lots of different style aluminium windows that require different attaching methods. But there should be no reason for them to have ever screwed them on from the outside.

Yes, they're some form of "security" screw - does anybody believe a thief couldn't remove them?

The screens are supposed to be "Crimsafe" screens - www.crimsafe.com.au They were supplied and installed by a Licensee. Looking through the brochures, not a single screen is screwed on from outside.

If the Licensee doesn't do something good I think I'll go to Crimsafe for advice.

Joined: 23 Jun 2004

Go straight to crimsafe anyway.
got a screen done for a rental place a few years back.
They installed and I went around to look before paying them.
3 inch gap at the bottom.
Dont worry he says. I'll get a strip to cover the gap.....

Took them 3 goes to get it right before they got paid.

BigHomo4U Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne

I spose you've already paid them have you Scott? No cheque you can cancell?

Mate, they look shithouse. I'd be demanding money back, replacement or something. And i wouldn't settle for some dodgy repair job either.

Our old house had security doors. Rivetted from the inside. Hammered metal look with rivets a very similar colour, almost un-noticable.

Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Location: Brisbane

Yep thats a great job they have done there.
Really hoping for your sake you haven't paid them yet.

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

They have a deposit only - which is about the value of the screen door, which I'll accept. Although the gap is a little bigger than I expected. Rolling Eyes

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

Ive seen screens attached like that back when i was at school but very few. They are a security screw but the driver for them is available at almost any place that sells tools. I would be complaining. There are defianatly better options on attaching them. The windows should have a recess for them to slot into and then they use a cleat and screw on the inside to hold them in place.

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

RUFF wrote:

The windows should have a recess for them to slot into and then they use a cleat and screw on the inside to hold them in place.

The old flyscreens were installed that way - that's what I expected these do do. The last house in Qld had security screens which lifted in & out from inside. I wasn't expecting crap like this - not for the price they quoted. cussing

Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Location: Brisbane

Just put that fact that your unhappy with them and why in writing. Send them a copy and have a copy your self. This will cover your arse if they try court action for the remainder of the $$$$.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:25 pm

Guts wrote:

Just put that fact that your unhappy with them and why in writing. Send them a copy and have a copy your self. This will cover your arse if they try court action for the remainder of the $$$$.

Scott, I would be getting a building inspector to write a report, then show them the paperwork and tell the company your are going to the local court to book a hearing date to recover your deposit and restore your property to original condition.

This might entice them to fix it properly or restore it and refund your money.

A building inspection report like this is a specific task much smaller than for a sale of property with no major liability risk for the inspector and should cost a lot less, as the work can be inspected in 2 minute.

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

v6hilux wrote:

Guts wrote:

Just put that fact that your unhappy with them and why in writing. Send them a copy and have a copy your self. This will cover your arse if they try court action for the remainder of the $$$$.

Scott, I would be getting a building inspector to write a report, then show them the paperwork and tell the company your are going to the local court to book a hearing date to recover your deposit and restore your property to original condition.

This might entice them to fix it properly or restore it and refund your money.

A building inspection report like this is a specific task much smaller than for a sale of property with no major liability risk for the inspector and should cost a lot less, as the work can be inspected in 2 minute.

I would just call them first. Chances are they will get it sorted out for you. No need to start writing letters and crap unless they are not interested in fixing the issue.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:06 pm

What are all the holes on the inside of the screen frame.

BJ

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

bj42turbo wrote:

What are all the holes on the inside of the screen frame.

BJ

That is how they fit their Crimesafe Mesh. http://www.crimsafe.com.au/product/whatIsCrimsafe.cfm?breadcrumb=9,11

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:13 pm

RUFF wrote:

bj42turbo wrote:

What are all the holes on the inside of the screen frame.

BJ

That is how they attech their Crimesafe Mesh. http://www.crimsafe.com.au/product/whatIsCrimsafe.cfm?breadcrumb=9,11

Nah i mean the holes further to the edge in pairs looks like something should be attached to it

BJ

Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Location: NSW

bj42turbo wrote:

Nah i mean the holes further to the edge in pairs looks like something should be attached to it

BJ

Look to be rivets holding the frame work together.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:20 pm

r0ck_m0nkey wrote:

bj42turbo wrote:

Nah i mean the holes further to the edge in pairs looks like something should be attached to it

BJ

Look to be rivets holding the frame work together.

Yeah that would make sence, Just checked out the website looks like an orsome product aside from the installation issues

BJ

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

r0ck_m0nkey wrote:

bj42turbo wrote:

Nah i mean the holes further to the edge in pairs looks like something should be attached to it

BJ

Look to be rivets holding the frame work together.

Correct they would be rivets. They have a cast angle corner section that slides inside the extrusion to hold the sections together.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:29 pm

-Scott- wrote:

yes, they're some form of "security" screw - does anybody believe a thief couldn't remove them?

Nah wouldn't take much to remove that style of security screw, Thats just wrong

BJ

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

bj42turbo wrote:

Just checked out the website looks like an orsome product aside from the installation issues

BJ

Yep - I was impressed, which is why I decided to pay a premium price for (what I expected to be) a premium product.

Five farkin screens across the front of the house, eight screw holes per screen. I wonder what they'll do to repair the holes when I tell them to take their farkin screens away? Rolling Eyes

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:06 pm

Security screens must have:

Reasonable preventative systems to prevent removal
No visable means of removal
Must be fixed to a solid surface able to withstand X amount of force

No point in having slash proof mesh if they can just remove them anyway.

Start a massive whinge about it... they are illegal

Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Location: Brisbane Australia

If they did that to my house, i would pull them all off myself, and ring them and tell them to come and collect thier shit, and return my deposit.

Anyone that would install security screens like that is an abolute moron, and certainly does not deserve a second chance.

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

Squik wrote:

Security screens must have:

Reasonable preventative systems to prevent removal
No visable means of removal
Must be fixed to a solid surface able to withstand X amount of force

No point in having slash proof mesh if they can just remove them anyway.

Start a massive whinge about it... they are illegal

Squik, is that quoting from the Australian Standard? I'd concluded that they're not fit for purpose, but some of the advertising cr@p they supplied lists some tests from AS5039 - which implies the installation would comply too. I'm thinking I can start talking misrepresentation, and being able to claim damages. This could become fun. Very Happy

Joined: 25 May 2007 Location: toowoomba

i know the bloke who started crimsafe and he sold it about 12 months ago
mabe the new owners are using cheap contractors now to install them
i would contact head office ,email them some photos
im sure they wouldnt want any bad press ie a story on today tonight/currant affair[they love this shit]
cheers steve

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

Scott any news on this today?

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

RUFF wrote:

Scott any news on this today?

Yes. Received a phone call in the middle of induction for my new job, had to call them back later.

I politely explained to the pleasant lady that I was unhappy with the screens being screwed onto the house from the outside, that I consider that defeats the purpose. She agreed to "enter a report" and somebody would contact me.

The pleasant lady rang back to explain the screws are security screws. I explained that doesn't stop them from being unscrewed. She agreed to put that in the report.

Salesman rang me after lunch. He's not happy. Very Happy

He's been out to have a look, can't see a problem. Offered to replace the screws with different type. No.

Told me most of the security screens he has installed in the last 4 years have been installed this way - it's quite acceptable. But it's not to me.

Got shitty with me, said burglars will kick in the glass panels beside the front door before they'll take the screens off. I disagreed.

Got shitty with me, said I can't have $2k worth of screens for free. I agreed, told him to take them away - and fix the holes.

Got shitty with me because I couldn't tell him how to fix the holes. Accused me of having problems without solutions. I pointed out I'm not in that business, he is, then gave him a few ideas.

He's now coming Saturday morning to have a look and discuss further. Rolling Eyes

I foresee I'll have to repair the holes myself. Mad

I don't think it's worth the hassle of legal action for that. Or I'll get a professional company to quote on security screens - I think I'll call Crimsafe direct tomorrow, see if this really is their preferred installation method. And neighbourhood watch, and Australian Security Industry Association Limited, and National Security Screen Association.

If anybody has had a similar experience, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks,

Scott