04 Challenger T-case gearset, and diff ratios. Help?

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Hi all,

I asked this Q on another site and was told to ask here....
I have 04 challenger auto 3.0l. I desperately need a better low range and am trying to find a low range gearset. Does anyone here know what will fit? If anyone has done it? I found these:

http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gearmaster/Mitsubishi-extra-low-tc-gears.htm

and have spoken to the guys there bu they dunno if they'll fit the challenger.
Apparently someone by the name of Frank on this forum has had a bit to do with the paj gears??

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

I have done some more research, it seems people are putting in 4.9 ratio diffs (I have 4.6**) does anyone know what they come out of? or where I might find some?

Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Location: NZ

first look at your chassis plate. shold have a transaxle code on it. on mine the code is: v5mt1 4875

v5mt1 is the gearbox and 4875 is the diff ratio. check that and then you will be able to look in the tech database and crossreferance yours with pajero models. that will enable to tell if the paj stuff should be interchangable with yours.

as for diff ratios, assuming the diffs are the same as pajero diffs, you need to count how many bolts hold the nugget into the housing. if its 12 look for a 2.8diesel pajero auto, and it will most likely have the 4.9ratio.
if its only 10 bolts holding it in look for a 2.5 diesel jtop and get the 5.295 diffs from that. some 2.5diesel lwb's may also have the 5.295, but jtops are much easier to find them in. and the jtops will usually have a factory rear locker.

Sam

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Ok went out and checked plate...

V4A51 4636 Diff is 10 bolt.

Is there any way of checking the diffs are the same in a paj as a challenger? other than buying one and trying to fit it?

Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: BELLBIRD PARK

Maybe you could try triton? 1999 and above.
As they have the same running gear and body lines as challenger.
Triton are commercial vehicle so diff ratios are possible higher.

Just a thought.Good luck

Darren.

Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Location: NZ

crunk81us wrote:

Is there any way of checking the diffs are the same in a paj as a challenger? other than buying one and trying to fit it?

um, im not sure. maybe get sumone with a pajero (either 3.0v6 or 2.5dt) to come over and then compare the two? or go to mitsi and get friendly with the parts guy... they may be able to check some part numbers etc, if they match you might be in luck.

crunk81us wrote:

V4A51 4636 Diff is 10 bolt.

looks like you have the same box as a gen 3 paj, but 4 speed instead of 5. im not sure if there is a kit for you from marks. they say they do the kit for the 3.5, but it looks like its for the gen 2, which has a differant box, so chances are its a differant transfur....

not looking good for you on the transfur gears from where im sitting...
id start taking some measurements from gen 2 pajeros...
the challenger idea could be worth looking into aswell...
Sam

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Ok so I did some real googling and found 2 pdf manuals one for the v4a51, and one for the v5a51 transmissions. I dug thru them and found the transfer case is the same between the two manuals. (even same reference numbers on the pictures) I checked my challengers manual and I have the 1.90 low range gears with the super select. So judging by that the gen3 transfer should be exactly the same, meaning the 3.15 gearset will fit. I will list the adddress for the manuals

Can someone spot a hole in my theory before I rush out and buy a set of gears?

http://mitsubishi-motors.kiev.ua/Manuals/Transmission/pwee8920/23D.pdf

http://traffic-shop.com.ua/Manuals/Transmission/pwee8920/23E.pdf

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: melb

The V4A51 should be the same as the V5A51 with an extra gear.
But keep in mind the V4A51 box in low range are desighned not to change into 4 gear. So effectively you will still only have 3 gears in lo range . The reduction could be to much wih only three lo range gears.....if you get my drift.
Dave

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

On that note, is there some way of redesigning it to change into 4th? I would imagine it is only a switch in the xfer that tells the box not to change?

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

AAAARGH this is doing my head in.. I don't have super select... I think.. The transfer cases in both of the pdf manuals have a centre diff. I am fairly sure I dont. Reckon I should just buy a bloody wrangler unlimited rubicon!!!

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: melb

crunk81us wrote:

AAAARGH this is doing my head in.. I don't have super select...

Certainly don't, Easy Select on the Challengers.
The reason it doesn't change into 4th in Lo Range is to safe guard the box...you are supposed to limit your speed to 50 kph. Otherwise kaputsky!
Dave

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

You need the 3.15's from the 3.5V6/2.8TDI Gen 2 Paj.
You have the same large t/case minus the centre diff but the gears are the same.
The 4.90's from the 2.8 TDI Gen 2 Paj is what you want - direct fit.
5sp Challengers = small running gear (Gen 2 Paj 3.0 V6)
Auto Challengers = large running gear (Gen 2 Paj 3.5V6/2.8TDI)
Don't ask me why.
And yes I'm that Frank dude.

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Bitsamissin wrote:

You need the 3.15's from the 3.5V6/2.8TDI Gen 2 Paj.
You have the same large t/case minus the centre diff but the gears are the same.
The 4.90's from the 2.8 TDI Gen 2 Paj is what you want - direct fit.
5sp Challengers = small running gear (Gen 2 Paj 3.0 V6)
Auto Challengers = large running gear (Gen 2 Paj 3.5V6/2.8TDI)
Don't ask me why.
And yes I'm that Frank dude.

Cheers Frank! Much appreciated. So that would be the 3.15's listed on the marks adaptors site, and not the new 3.15's just being made now. Is it also possible to fit the 5.29's....and will my arb locker fit the new diff or will I have to find a new one?

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

pickle wrote:

crunk81us wrote:

AAAARGH this is doing my head in.. I don't have super select...

Certainly don't, Easy Select on the Challengers.
The reason it doesn't change into 4th in Lo Range is to safe guard the box...you are supposed to limit your speed to 50 kph. Otherwise kaputsky!
Dave

yes but with 3.15 gears I wouldnt be doing 50kph? or is it just the internal speeds of the transfer? Surely it wouldnt be as soon as you go over 50kph it goes bang... would be more of a high wear situation, like bouncing off my revlimiter in low 3rd trying to get up a sand dune but not getting enough speed up to actually go up it. Though maybe a supercharger/nos in high range would fix that Wink

I am hoping to do a Simpson Desert trip starting from big red side. I know for a fact my truck wont go up it in high range unless I hit it at warp speed (no power below 40 kph) and low range wont give me enough speed. I have done a simpson trip with my parents and know Big red is a task and a half, so are a few other dunes on the way.

Maybe I am asking to much of the poor thing?

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

Yes the 3.15's for the Gen 2 are available now from Mark Hardman and a very different to the Gen 3 4.15's which are being made now.
If you get the part no's of these (give the VIN no to your local Mitsi dealer to reference) :-
- rear crownwheel & pinion
- transfer case gears (x3) = low, input and idler/counter gears
I will be able to positively confirm what you have and what will fit.
If you have the large 4.636 diff then 4.90 is as low as you can go the 5.29 ratio only fits the smaller rear diff and there is no 5.29 that will fit your 8" high pinion front diff anyway.

PS - do you have an ARB locker already installed in the rear ?
If you do it has to be the smaller rear diff.
The ARB locker for the large rear diff isn't released yet (next few months).

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Well then its definately a small diff then cause yes I have the locker in already. sounds like 4.9's it is. I will talk to mitsybitchy dealer and check the tcase gears.

Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Location: NZ

10 bolt diff, so small diff.

frank, could the small 5.29 front diff go in the front of the challenger? mine bolted straight into my paj.

Sam

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

Hmmm this is very interesting..............
It seems the later model Aussie Challengers have the Paj 3.0V6 running gear but the t/case is the larger 3.5V6 unit minus the super select function.
It also seems we have another ratio for the 9" rear diff = 4.636 as opposed to 3.0V6 Pajero's = 4.625 & 4.875.
In theory the late model 2.8TDI Triton's running gear would be the same and they run a 4.90 ratio. Could it be that Mitsu have dropped the old 9" 4.625 & 4.875 ratio's and standardised to a 9" 4.636 & 4.90 ??
If that is the case then the 9" 4.90's from the Triton can be fitted to the Challenger but I would need Triton part no's to cross reference the diff carrier and centre to be absolutely sure.

Wacko in theory the smaller 7.25" Paj front diff should bolt into a Challenger to fit the 5.29's but IMHO it' is a strength downgrade and you can't fit the 8" ARB locker.

Crunk it seems you will need the 3.15's for the t/case but get the part no's of those gears just to be sure.
You have a 9" rear diff and 8" high pinion front diff.
You can fit a 9" 5.29 to the rear diff but there is no 5.29 for the front high pinion 8" diff.
You should be able to fit 4.90's from the 2.8TDI Triton but as I said I would like part no's to be 100% sure.
The other option is to go 4.875 front & rear from the Gen 2 Paj 3.0V6 - plenty of those around at wreckers.
If you have your heart set on 5.29's then you can fit one directly to the 9" rear. The front 8" high pinion diff is the problem and there are two options but I don't know of anyone who has done either :-
- retrofit small 7.25" high pinion front diff which will take a 5.29 but as I said no-one has actually done this that I know of and it will be a downgrade in strength and you will not be able to fit the 8" front ARB locker but you will retain the Easy Select function.
- retrofit 8" low pinion front diff from a Gen 1 3.0V6 but again I don't know anyone who has actually done this. You can run a 5.29 for this diff but will loose the Easy Select function and have to run manual hubs but you will be able to fit the 8" ARB locker.

If it were me I would go the 3.15's for the t/case once part no's are confirmed.
I wouldn't bother with 5.29's because of the front diff issue but would try to confirm if the 2.8TDI Triton 4.90's would fit (I'm confident they will) in the event they don't then I would go 4.875 from the Gen 2 3.0V6 Paj.
Remember the 9.5" 4.90 ratio from the Gen 2 2.8TDI Paj will not fit your rear diff only the front will be possible.

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: melb

My understanding is all Challengers run the 4.636 diff as we only had V6 petrol engines in the range. Though by rights the 4.90 should fit in the Challenger as Frank points out.
ARB specifies RD46 rear locker for both Triton and Challenger petrol models.
The 2.8 deisel Triton as well as the petrol also runs the 4.900.
Dave

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Ok, I will have to have a chat to mitsubishi and check up on part numbers etc. I will probably go the easier route as opposed to retrofitting, and fit the 4.9's That combined with the 3.15's should keep me smiling for a while, especially since I could then turn 33's. Twisted Evil

Thanks for all the info!
I will keep all updated on progress next year

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

Crunk I've got a 5sp NJ Paj 3.5V6 with the 3.15 t/case gears and run 33"s and low range is as sweet as. Add in 4.90's and it will be even better.

Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: Qld

Bitsamissin wrote:

Crunk I've got a 5sp NJ Paj 3.5V6 with the 3.15 t/case gears and run 33"s and low range is as sweet as. Add in 4.90's and it will be even better.

The only reason I don't run them now is low range first gear can still do about 30kmh (auto box) and I constantly need more power in slow and uphill stuff. I will do the 3.15's first and add 33's, then look at diffs later.