kokoda and war history

Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Location: capalaba qld

Just finished watching KOKODA and was thinking how little i know about war history like most people ,do they still teach that stuff at school. And can u buy documentaries on war history ?

Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Location: Bundy...

Google video is your friend.

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Location: Hervey Bay

dirtyGQ wrote:

Just finished watching KOKODA and was thinking how little i know about war history like most people ,do they still teach that stuff at school. And can u buy documentaries on war history ?

Quite a few war history doco's available at the ABC shop on DVD and VHS.

War history is taught in a few select secondary schools but for more indepth research you'd need to look at a uni course (I think New England Uni has a n Aussie War History Masters).

Hope this helps.

Smile

Scol.

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia

I can guarantee you that your local library has a stack of books on WW2 history.

Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Location: capalaba qld

cool i will go to the library and abc shop. it just annoys me knowing so little about it. i know something though and that is the iraq war is a load of bull dung.

Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Location: Central West NSW

dirtyGQ wrote:

Just finished watching KOKODA and was thinking how little i know about war history like most people ,do they still teach that stuff at school. And can u buy documentaries on war history ?

They do still teach it at school. My school walks it as an optional excursion. Actually my mum also just realised her dream in walking it recently.
http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=111

Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Location: capalaba qld

great pics mate what a beautiful but sad trip that would be to think of the blood sweat and tears that were sacrificed for australia and its people,if it hadn't been for those brave men we would be speaking japanese now.

Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Location: Central West NSW

Yeah, the fellas at work reckon its just an amazing trip with regards to some of the scenery, the history and of course the walk. Hopefully that'll be me next year touch wood. Stunning to think that the men walked it, carried their supplies and weapons, the conditions they were in etc. Something everybody always says, is that it would be an absolute shocker if it was wet.

Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Location: Check your six.

My avatar is the 39th Battalion unit colours, 'mud over blood'. Their motto is 'Deeds not words. ' which is my sig. The other avatar I use is the 4th Light Horse Regiment that my Great Uncle was assigned to in WW1 before transferring to the 1st Battalion.

I have two great uncles (brothers and still with us) who served with that unit and fought at Isurva in D company. It was so wet his uniform rotted. His shoes fell to pieces and he wore a size 10 and a size 12 on the other foot, anything he could grab. He lost a lot of mates from Dandenong. He saw where Pte Kingsbury fell. KKingsbury was awarded the VC.

As they were a militia unit they were called the 'choco soldiers 'by their regular army comrades meaning that they would melt like chocolate at the first hint of battle. Well they proved that wrong.

Uncle Charlie has been interviewed by his daughter on DVD about his exploits and that has been sent to the War Memorial ACT for posterity.He earnt the Military Medal on the his first day in combat.

He won't talk about everything he did or saw as it haunts him but he is opening up as he approaches the last over of his life. Funny and depressing to listen to.

Lest we forget

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Location: Hervey Bay

dirtyGQ wrote:

cool i will go to the library and abc shop. it just annoys me knowing so little about it. i know something though and that is the iraq war is a load of bull dung.

Don't need to read too much to know how useless the Iraq War is ... poor bastards over there ... but that's another story.

Crying or Very sad

Scol.

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: Western Sydney

I watched that video as well, did anyone else find it hard to follow and not very well done?

Nat went to sleep halfway through, she said she could not keep up with who was who, what they were doing and where abouts in the battle they were.

Take for instance the movie We were soldiers, that was done very well, easy to understand, easy to follow who is who, how the battle is unfolding. However I did like the book rather then the movie.

As for history there are heaps of books and documentarys on it, maybe if your lucky speak to a digger who was there, I have spoken to my many diggers including my Grandfather. It gives you more of a personal view on the WAR. You can see it in there eyes and body language, something a book and video can not do.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Lost in Melbourne.

www.amazon.com you can buy chit loads of stuff

www.torrentspy.com or limewire etc you can download heaps free

Joined: 05 Mar 2006

if you are going to read about history, read modern versions.
Most of the old stuff has been discredited now.
One good book was The Kingfisher Project by Athol Moffit.
Take what you read with a grain of salt however.
My mother used to say believe none of what you here and only half of what you see and you will get on well in life.

Remember that lying is a proven human trait and that the blame game is as old as man.

We have been raising children for 12 thousand years or so and we are no better at it today then we were back then, if anything we are a lot worse at it. However we have also killed each other for the same length of time and we have gone from throwing rocks to dropping nuclear bombs.
NOW THATS PROGRESS.

If you read history learn to understand not hate, there is no point in celebrating stupidity.

Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Location: canberra

we were taught it in primary school and used to march on anzac day in our town we also learnt about it in high school dispite all the rude . that interupted the class. haveing 2 grandfarthers and a great grand farther involved in the war it means alot to me. and there sacrafice should be learnt by all australians.

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Location: norfolk,england

A LITTLE OFF TOPIC .
done some survival training with some of your ADF (near a place called kimberly?) must say some of the nicest guys ever done a exercise with. Laughing

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: Western Sydney

steve howes wrote:

A LITTLE OFF TOPIC .
done some survival training with some of your ADF (near a place called kimberly?) must say some of the nicest guys ever done a exercise with. Laughing

The Kimberly is a region in Northen Western Australia South west of Darwin. I am sure that the entire region is bigger than the UK

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia

This movie was on TV last night. It wasn't badly made although it felt like the story line and character conflicts were pretty forced.

But anyway, what I found weird was the massive historical howler at the start of the movie, in a sort of intro section, when they talked about how the US fleet was at the bottom of Pearl Harbor so Australia was alone with nobody to help, etc, etc.

It was just completely not right and I found it odd that they would have used it when it seemed that they were trying to be historically authentic in the rest of the film.

What really happened is that a few months before the US navy won an important strategic victory over Japan in the Battle of the Coral Sea, so that the Japs had to abandon their plan to invade Port Moresby by amphibious assault and had to take an overland route instead, which is the whole reason there was a fight over the Kokoda Track at all, instead of just a quick and easy Japanese occupation of Port Moresby.

Just odd.

Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Location: where ever the track takes me

Our war history is a proud and valiant, Kokoda being one small part of it, although more publicised than others.
"less we forget" seems now only prevalent on Anzac day, as every other day its never remembered just what it is the Diggers did. Schools dont seen to concentrate to much on it, it seems to be politicaly incorect and may offend! ( What a crock of sh!t)

Any one who lives in Sydney or Canberra and hasn't visited the war memorial should make the trip, its a humbling and interesting and imformative day visit.

Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Location: Check your six.

I watched it also last night. Wasn't a bad film but I balanced it against the doco Kokoda the Bloody Track which can be obtained via Youtube.

I just hope that Kokoda and the battles for Leyte Gulf, Milne Bay, Bismark Sea eventually overtake the Gallipoli Campaign as for strategic importance.

Those battles just to our north really did help to repel the Japanese. Had they succeeded in taking Moresby then the lifeline to the US would have been cut.

Lest We Forget.

Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Location: Tassie

There is a very good documentry called
Damian Parers Kokoda Frontline (Damian is from King Island where I live)
It is presented by Peter Fitzsimons (Ex Australian rugby Player) who also has writen a great book also called Kokoda, which is a must read on this subject.

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Location: CYSTIC FIBROSIS SUCKS

Their is a book called, THE WORLD AT ARMS its a readers digest book but its very good Wink

inscription on the 2nd british division memorial at kohima..
When you go home
Tell them of us and say
For your tomorrow
We gave today Crying or Very sad

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Location: CYSTIC FIBROSIS SUCKS

Another good book is called Brother to the dingo.By Murray Mitchell[BawnaSamaki] its a story of a Aussie and what he achieved,After the war
very rare as he only printed a 1000 of them Wink

Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Location: North West Qld

This bloke is (was) my great uncle

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/16/1029114013113.html

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Location: Brisbane

Australia treats it's returned vet's with contempt.
Individualy, poeple respect what these vet's gave up. But Australia as a whole doesn't.

Our vet's struggle to get help when they return, and the family left behind when they dont come back get f**k all. I have friends who have died in service and their family struggle. The government has even taken away the 20year pension. I have family who served in veitnam and still haven't recieved their gongs. They refuse to beg for them, as they said, if Australia doesn't want to give the medals to them, they dont want them.
And the way the government and the people treated these vet's was deplorable. Even the way the Iraq troops are recieved is not right either.

It's little wonder our defence force struggle to get enough people, and struggle to keep the ones they have.

I beleive that if you have served in Active service you should be exempt paying income tax, with free medical as given to current serving members. Compare what the pollies give themselves on retiring to what the service people get, and the pollies lives are never in danger.
The above also counts for our emergency services.

Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Location: Coffs Harbour

chimpboy wrote:

This movie was on TV last night. It wasn't badly made although it felt like the story line and character conflicts were pretty forced.

But anyway, what I found weird was the massive historical howler at the start of the movie, in a sort of intro section, when they talked about how the US fleet was at the bottom of Pearl Harbor so Australia was alone with nobody to help, etc, etc.

It was just completely not right and I found it odd that they would have used it when it seemed that they were trying to be historically authentic in the rest of the film.

What really happened is that a few months before the US navy won an important strategic victory over Japan in the Battle of the Coral Sea, so that the Japs had to abandon their plan to invade Port Moresby by amphibious assault and had to take an overland route instead, which is the whole reason there was a fight over the Kokoda Track at all, instead of just a quick and easy Japanese occupation of Port Moresby.

Just odd.

Mate I might have read your post wrong but the Japs had always planned of coming over the Kokoda Track before the Milne Bay lose. The Japs were to set up a base on the north coast of New Guinea in readiness for a combined assault on foot over the Track and later by boat.

The lose at Milne Bay was really the start of the end for the Japs southern advance to Port Moresby and Australia.

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: cashmere

sorry off thread.........chucky hit the nail on the head... totally agree

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia

beaujest4 wrote:

Mate I might have read your post wrong but the Japs had always planned of coming over the Kokoda Track before the Milne Bay lose. The Japs were to set up a base on the north coast of New Guinea in readiness for a combined assault on foot over the Track and later by boat.

The lose at Milne Bay was really the start of the end for the Japs southern advance to Port Moresby and Australia.

No, I was just referring to the way the voiceover at the start of the movie said that the US fleet was at the bottom of Pearl Harbor and Australia was all alone.

It just isn't right; the US had won its first significant naval victory a couple of months before in the Battle of the Coral Sea, preventing a naval assault on Port Moresby. And if the US carriers hadn't held their own in that fight then there wouldn't have been a battle of the Kokoda track because we wouldn't have had time to get there.

I think it is okay that they made out that the Japanese were planning to invade Australia (even though they probably weren't), because a lot of people believed it at the time. But the fact that the US had gone a long way toward turning back the tide, navally, was well known at the time. First at the Coral Sea, then at Midway which definitely signalled that the US navy was not "at the bottom of Pearl Harbor."

I'm not knocking the importance of Kokoda, it definitely mattered that we stopped the Jap advance, it is just that the voiceover was saying something that wasn't right.

Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Location: SOR Perth

"A Bastard of a Place... The Australians in Papua" is definitive reading on this subject. Written by Peter Brune, Australia's leading war historian.

It deals with the campaign as a whole and prompts you to place your own importance on battles such as Kokoda, Sanananda, Gona, Buna and in my opinion the most important battle in Australia's military history... Milne Bay.

Gives you an insight into those fools MacArthur and Blamey, and details how important the campaign was to Australia as a nation (however small a part it was in the Pacific theatre).

Personally I don't think Japan had any serious notion of invading Australia however they were well schooled in layered defence and an occupied PNG to our northern border would have provided them with protection in depth for their Southern Resource Area.

In regard to "Australia being all alone...." I would suggest that if they had been, the PNG campaign would have finished months earlier and with minimal loss of life... the poor leadership of MacWanker and his lapdog Blamey cost the AIF some of its finest and most experienced soldiers.

Roadnazi - The deliberate attack on the 8th Dec '42 into Gona conducted under their own artillery barrage was the finest moment for the 39th Battalion and its CO, COL Honner and its shameful that this warrior battalion was disbanded in '43.

Chimpboy - I agree with your views on the USN.. they were not (well some weren't) on the bottom of Pearl Harbour; they were however pretty focused on the defence/assualt of Guadacanal which was of higher importance to them. Australia's initial point of view was to fight a protracted defence of PNG (working on the (acurate) principle that an invasion just wasn't possible)as the Japanese were well extended through their lines of Comm's and were ripe for the plunder at a suitable time.

The fact was that MacArthur had complete descretion over the AIF due to the Australian Government not enforcing an Australian theatre commander presence in his war cabinet and it was MacArthur that forced the fight in PNG... and it was he that changed the AIF from protracted action into a headlong race to "liberate" PNG before the Marines could do the same to G'canal. Many reasons for this...quick study of MacIdiot and you'll make your own assessment.

Anyway DirtyGQ... enjoy your studies.... it is an interesting, shameful, proud and sad story.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Lost in Melbourne.

Barnsey wrote:

This bloke is (was) my great uncle

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/16/1029114013113.html

which one - Dr Geoffrey Vernon. Nor of Herb Kienzle. John Howard

Joined: 06 May 2004 Location: Queensland

In regards to Chuckys comments , I agree and well said.

I found one of the best ways to learn about Australia's military history was to become part of it, I joined the Australian Army 3 odd years ago now as an ASLAV Crewman and have since been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

As a part of your training you we are taught Corps history , seeing as I am an Armoured Corps Soldier and posted to 2/14 Light Horse Regiment (Queensland Mounted Infantry) I have the honour of carrying on the tradition of wearing emu plumes in my slouch hat and I must say it is quite a privilage. To be able to stand in a mueseum in France looking at a hat found on the battle feilds of the Somme and say to your mate " Thats exactly the same as my hat at work" is very sombering thing.

So many people focus on Gallipoli as our ' Baptism of fire' and neglet the other battle feilds we fought and died in The Somme , Palistine ,Beersheba (The Light Horse took the city after the British failed)Tobruk , The Paccific , Darwin (Yes , we got bombed by the Japanese) , Kapyong in Korea where 3RAR got a presidential citation form the US, Long Tan , Fire Base Coral , East Timor , Iraq and Afghanistan.

We have a very rich and proud history for such a young nation and quiet a reputation as hard fighters which current diggers try to live up to. We face a different kind of enemy compared to older generations but still non the less dangerous. I have seen it myself in when I was in Bagdhad when they put 32 mortar rounds into the internation zone and had to go to the aid of two wounded Americans one of which died , the story is much the same in Afghanistan.

Basicaly what I am saying is our history is deep and goes alot further then you think , look into it.

Lastly , EVEN IF YOU DONT SUPPORT THE WAR OR THE GOVERNMENT ALWAYS SUPPORT YOUR TROOPS, WE DO APPRECIATE IT.