Project "DAMKIA" - SASed and Lifted Kia Sportage

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

I hear that KiA's don't float????????

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

sierrajim wrote:

I hear that KiA's don't float????????

Yeah, not quite Jesus, but we're working on it.........

When you see a high tide mark on the inside of your ECU case you can pretty much guess you might be in a spot of bother. Embarassed

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

Pics??????

Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Location: Hellbourne again

Hmmm i also heard that beadlocks don't really work that well when they are left at home Wink

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

next mod? not so silly.

Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Location: Hellbourne again

sierrajim wrote:

next mod? not so silly.

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

bigsteve wrote:

Hmmm i also heard that beadlocks don't really work that well when they are left at home Wink

Neither do trip leaders.............. Laughing

It was decided on the night that all Sgt at arms be paid by the absent trip leader.................Buddy boy, you had better steal a loaded Armorguard van, methinks....

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

I be thinkin' that you had better rob a bank after your last month or so. The Finger

Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Location: Hellbourne again

Huh trip leader, Greg had the trip sheet, that makes him guilty by association

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:37 pm

yep,
your both in the shit Laughing

Mock

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: Melbourne

bigsteve wrote:

Huh trip leader, Greg had the trip sheet, that makes him guilty by association

Boy oh boy, there's no way I'll be missing the next club meeting!!!! Very Happy

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

Back on topic....

Mmmmm......lockers!!!

About AUD $530 each end plus S/H.

Can also supply 5.38 R&P (cost??)

Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Location: Hellbourne again

So your not going the axle swap now?

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

bigsteve wrote:

So your not going the axle swap now?

Still not quite sure if I'm undecided or not, but at less than $2000 all up, and no engineering hassles could well be worth a try. The problem with the axle swaps is the gearing. Nissan to 4.88, Toyota to 5.29 (fragile) to 5.71 (no warranty Confused

), oh, and the $8.5K+ to get it done. The Kia 5.38 is 13% up on what I have, almost brings me back to "normal" gearing with my tyres (well, 5% short rather than 18%).

One thing I have noticed of late since removing a lot of the plastic work is that clearance is not the problem it once was (surprise, surprise), the issue is traction to the tyres.

Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Location: Hellbourne again

GaryInOz wrote:

bigsteve wrote:

So your not going the axle swap now?

Still not quite sure if I'm undecided or not, but at less than $2000 all up, and no engineering hassles could well be worth a try. The problem with the axle swaps is the gearing. Nissan to 4.88, Toyota to 5.29 (fragile) to 5.71 (no warranty Confused

), oh, and the $8.5K+ to get it done. The Kia 5.38 is 13% up on what I have, almost brings me back to "normal" gearing with my tyres (well, 5% short rather than 18%).

One thing I have noticed of late since removing a lot of the plastic work is that clearance is not the problem it once was (surprise, surprise), the issue is traction to the tyres.

Not to mention the fact that it will still be all kia as well.

Not a kia that needed GQ axles.

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

Garry,

i'll jump out on a limb here.

You're busting front diffs with an open centre and small less agressive tyres. So now you're thinking of spending money on changing ratios, installing lockers and beefier tyres?????

Lockers and beefier tyres will most probably make your problem worse. The gearing may mean that you can crawl (well fast crawl) some obsticles but if the factory hubs and diff are weak, take them out and replace them with something stronger.

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

sierrajim wrote:

Garry,

i'll jump out on a limb here.

You're busting front diffs with an open centre and small less agressive tyres. So now you're thinking of spending money on changing ratios, installing lockers and beefier tyres?????

Lockers and beefier tyres will most probably make your problem worse. The gearing may mean that you can crawl (well fast crawl) some obsticles but if the factory hubs and diff are weak, take them out and replace them with something stronger.

I'll go out on the other limb and say that the diff got a hell of a beating to make it break. What probably caused the failure was the constant hammering as I was getting a wheel airborne/sliding back to last traction point, with the accel/decel going through the spider gears/side gears of the diff, even that took a day to show itself. The locker will not let this happen, therby decreasing the shock load going through the driveline. To be fair, it is the only known instance of front diff failure at 4x4wire.com, and according to other reports (including the local dealer) the rears tend to give more problems (friction plate wear, mainly) than the front. I am for the moment putting it down to the "bathtub" reliability curve and calling it a "one off" failure.

As for the hubs, everyone does one occasionally.

Front driveshafts - only one has been done (4x4wire, that was because the needle bearing supporting it disintegrated allowing misalignment/vibration), and that was about 18 months ago on a 1995 model that had been extensivly used for rockcrawling with 32" tyres (other end of the "bathtub" curve).

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

from toyota thread I'll finish editing the repeats out later....

ADDIT: Trimmed to its minimal content

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Which model LC's have a center rear diff, what is the width WMS-WMS, and what ratios do they carry/can they be fitted with (hoping for about the 5.29?:1). Offset of the rims would be nice to know too, 15" rims OK??? (brake clearance)

I've done a search, but came up with zip.

Yes, there is a potential project happening........(fried the front diff in the Kia again

Clarifying, centered vs offset. I can't use an offset rear due to fuel tank location being where the driveshaft would run.

is this for the Sportage? a hilux rear axle has a (very close to) centred diff, a wider range of ratios (including 5.29 and lower), and a selection of widths, one of which will be suitable for your purpose. A landcruiser axle is way overkill for a smallver vehicle with some definite disdavantages, including a bigger bulge in the middle to hang you up on rocks, and a lot more weight to drag around. As a bonus, you can get 5.29's to suit hilux fron wreckers for as cheap as $50 for a whole diff (from 2.4 litre diesel hiace vans from the early '80s)

apart from some very early FJ40's (1960's? might even be FJ25 only?) all landcruisers have an offset rear diff. Your alternative for a centrerd output rear is Nissan Patrol.

does this help?

Many thanks, and yes it is.....

Stock 15x6 rims with 45mm offset 205/70R15 tyres. Stock track is 1440mm - 205mm would be 1235 between the insides of the tyres minimum (tight fit even as standard). Presently there is 1275mm between the insides of the Simexes and they leave rub marks in the guards.

So do you thing a hilux rear and 80 series(?) front would work (width and ratios)?

Stick with hilux allround, no need for 80 stuff on the kia. I don't think a 5.29 to match is available anyway.

I'm around the 1700 kg ATM, and I have heard that Hilux CV's are like matchsticks, just concerned about the strength of the front end. Ppl assume that the Kia is a lightweight, but it is twice the weight of a Zook (other main swap for Lux diffs), and heavier than a Vitara, GV, XL-7, and Hilux single and dual cab by anywhere from 200-400kg.

Are there any stronger CV's that can be fitted to Hilux diffs, or even birfield eliminators?

you can get 5.29's for 80 series.

yes! talk to RUFF and he'll be happy to sell you a set of indestructible CV's for your hilux - but the stockers really aren't that weak to start with; they are identical to the CV's in 40,55 and 60 series landcruisers which can weigh in well over 2500kg. My bundera had the same CVs and I never broke one, it was 2350kg. You really only start breaking them if you add power and/or gearing (or have very little mechanical sympathy as a driver - eg lockers on, one front wheel in the air, other trying to climb a step, and full lock cranked in).

stick with the lux gear all round, it is cheap and available, and the 80 front will be way too wide for your application.

width wise someone else will have to get the figures to you, but I think you'll be right with an early hilux setup. be aware also that there are different "size" hilux diffs - the early models have a lighter diff centre casting and uses 45mm ID carrier bearings. the later models use 50mm ID carrier bearings and has bigger pinion bearings. Both use the same size 8" ring gear.

project sounds cool! are you going to 5-link the front and A-frame rear?

DamKia is going to have coils all around and I originally thought the 80 series would be easier to adapt (read quicker with less fab, this is my daily driver as well). Eventually I will be looking at a power upgrade/tranny swap/twinstick or deeper tcase gearing (next year $$$$!!) being another reason for the 80's. Easier to cut down an 80 than try to extend a Lux for width. The 80 would be plenty strong enough in the longside axle not to need to carry a spare.

As far as front suspension, might be a little bit restricted with the amount of room in the engine bay (28" engine to firewall) but I would like to fit a 5 link if possible now if not later, otherwise stick with the stock radius arms.

The rear has the fuel tank right up to the level of the diff and along the driveshaft lenth, making an A-frame a bit difficult. The original 5 link suspension mounts and geometry are capable of a respectable bit of flex as it is, but I am thinking along the line of a track bar (slightly offset to the passengers side), 2 links, and panhard.

Any other suggestions comments appreciated. Note that I am thinking out aloud (?!?!?) here and playing the devils advocate, so no offence intended, nor am I taking sides.

doesn't it have IFS now? maybe a Bundera leading arm setup would be appropriate. I will at this point mention that 6 months ago I chopped up and threw away a bundera front axle housing because I couldn't give it away.

if you have a 5-link already, stick with it. there is very little to be gained over it from other setups. the A-frame and the trackbar setup you describe will both have heaps of flex-steer so if it's workable to stick with the 5 link then do it.

Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Location: Campbelltown, Sydney

You gotta edit that last post Shocked

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Location: Townsville

get you elbow off the key pad Wink

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

Done, sorry guys.... Embarassed

Joined: 06 May 2004 Location: Darwin N.T.

if a 5 door vitara need LC axles, why wouldn't a Kia?

http://www.zukiworld.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=suzuki_talk;action=display;num=1110242240

http://www.zukiworld.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=suzuki_talk;action=display;num=1110428553

the Kia looks a beast already, let alone what it'll be like after your plans. just wish we all had that little bit extra $$$ for more mods.

cheers
Steve

Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Location: AUS

Sounds like plenty of plans afoot....good on you for trying something very different eh - look we all gots our zany ideas...Have you sorted out the hubs? Looking forward to seeing in action in a forest near you soon armsup

With all your plans for engine/tranny swaps as well as diffs have you looked into body swap onto another chassis/running gear?

cheers scotty

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

scotto wrote:

Sounds like plenty of plans afoot....good on you for trying something very different eh - look we all gots our zany ideas...Have you sorted out the hubs? Looking forward to seeing in action in a forest near you soon armsup

With all your plans for engine/tranny swaps as well as diffs have you looked into body swap onto another chassis/running gear?

cheers scotty

The $360 new hubs are fine, it's either the front halfshaft (10-20%) or the front diff (80-90%) that went bang. Put it up the ramp at Cheezy's and there was a very familiar sounding ratcheting bang coming from the front diff (sidegears I think) along with an oil leak from the shortside oil seal Confused

so I won't be doing anything until after the SAS.

Loooking at the repower options, either a 2.8-3 litre turbodiesel auto (Hilux/Surf) depending on underbonnet size or possibly a Holden V6 with auto. Will be happening shotly after clearing the debt of the SAS, later this year, +/- twinstick depending on funds.

As for diffs I have pretty much settled on a (ca. 1997) 80 series front and a centerd 80 rear, or a GQ front and rear. The chassis and body is pretty wide in the rear at 41" which pretty much rules out Hilux gear (including a chassis swap) by the time you factor in 35's (37's???) and any articulation. (4.5-4.88 ratio)

Had thought of a bodyswap, but untill someone gives me a real reason to, I would like to keep that much "Kia".

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

PROJECT “DAMKIA”

WISH LIST

Stage 1

80 Series front differential with 3 link suspension
Centred 80 series or 90 series (Prado – already centred) rear differential, 5 link
1.3” body lift
35”-37” tyres
Spring lift to suit
Centre mounted rear shock absorbers

Stage 2

Hilux 2.8-3 litre turbo-diesel automatic/Holden V6 automatic + adaptor
Dual T/case (stock 2.2 and aftermarket 3.7)

Stage 3

Tube front bar with winch and towing hook, and rear bar with towing hooks/eyes
Internal 6 point roll cage, new approved seats and 5 point safety harness

POSSIBLE ISSUES

Stage 1

Fuel tank runs next to rear driveshaft - need to centre rear diff??
Locate rear diff 4”-5” further back to allow for larger tyres
Reuse Kia 5 link locations/mounts???
Rear chassis is 41” wide, probably need about 50” space between tyres for articulation

Locate front diff further forward by 4”-5” to allow for tyres
Kia Pitman arm is reverse pointing – relocate forwards, or replace with Hilux?

Stage 2

Length of engine - Firewall to radiator 26”
Transmission tunnel width
Exhaust routing

Stage 3

Decommissioning air bag (not working ATM anyway – deployment unit got wet…)

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

After talking to Cheezy:

GQ diffs, 5 link

Single 3.7 tcase

Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Wheeling in my backyard

no snorkel Question

Only kidding, will be interesting to see when its done.

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

sierrajim wrote:

no snorkel Question

Only kidding, will be interesting to see when its done.

Wasn't the snorkle I needed, more like a waterproof ECU and 44's Confused

Starting in middle of May.

Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Location: Central Coast

Hi guys,
Been reading all your posts. Wow.
Would like to get a few things done to my car as soon as I can find some extra $$$. Ill take some notes.
Have to try and compete with partners 4runner soon. lol
Cheers Mrs Mck

Joined: 11 May 2003 Location: Melbourne

I'm sorry, but what kind of tool would go to all the trouble of SAS and use leaves???? He obviously like the bad ride with the IFS and wanted to make it worse.

Gary, I think it's great what your doing. It is original. Keep it up.

Nissan = Arseholes (everyone's got one) The Finger

Toyota = Clitoris (every C#@t's got one) The Finger

Suzuki's = small and common also The Finger