80 series 3 link front end

Joined: 28 Oct 2002 Location: Sydney

I want to get the front end on the 80 to work like the rear. I dont want to go 5 link front end (thats at least 18 months away!), but i would like to know if there are any softer or "different" bushes out there that will allow more rotation?? At the moment, the bushes in it are just bout ., so they need to be done anyway....

Ideas all??

Phill

Joined: 19 May 2003 Location: Gold Coast

Some guys I know take one of the bolts out of the front of the control arms on each side to give a bit more flex. I've never been game to try it but then again I also still run swaybars.

I have always found that the front of my 80 flexes enough and when it don't..... Well that's what lockers are for isnt it.

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

Gday
I would try just one bolt on one side, (probably a front one) and try it out.
Keep the Toyota bushes and slot the holes if you need caster correction, and you will keep articulation at its best.
Andrew

Joined: 28 Oct 2002 Location: Sydney

Its got 5" king springs in it, and caster correction plates on it, and no swaybars. I might see iff i can get a pair of 20-25% softer springs for it, and see how it goes

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

I have heard of Johnny joints being used in the chassis to lower arm joints, but the problem remails of a stiff axle with arms with 2 bolts and bushes either end fighting for articulation.
Diffloc fixes that.
Andrew

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: NEWCASTLE

Have alook in the rover section as STRANGE ROVER is now doin slotted bushes for discos and the like and apparently he is goin to do nissan and cruiser ones to ..........but they are still way of -production yet ...........................

Good amount of extra flex in stranges disco though could be the go for the 80 Question

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

if you take both the front bolts out you are relying on the panhard rod bushes for axle wrap control, which is almost the same as no axle wrap control. just pulling one bolt total (ie leave 3 in) will yield a fair bit of flex in the front without compromising axle wrap control, and it only takes 30 seconds to put the bolt back in when you go back on the road.

personally I like not having too much flex in the front, it adds a bit of control and makes for awesome wheel-up photos Wink

dow50r wrote:

I would try just one bolt on one side, (probably a front one) and try it out.
Keep the Toyota bushes and slot the holes if you need caster correction, and you will keep articulation at its best.
Andrew

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:38 am

dumbdunce wrote:

if you take both the front bolts out you are relying on the panhard rod bushes for axle wrap control, which is almost the same as no axle wrap control. just pulling one bolt total (ie leave 3 in) will yield a fair bit of flex in the front without compromising axle wrap control, and it only takes 30 seconds to put the bolt back in when you go back on the road.

personally I like not having too much flex in the front, it adds a bit of control and makes for awesome wheel-up photos Wink

dow50r wrote:

I would try just one bolt on one side, (probably a front one) and try it out.
Keep the Toyota bushes and slot the holes if you need caster correction, and you will keep articulation at its best.
Andrew

Remove the passenger side one if you experiment with this, the drivers side should remain strong as it is closest to the torque drive portion (diff pumpkin) and will reduce the torque action on the long side of the diff housing.

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: Your Mummas House!

dumbdunce wrote:

if you take both the front bolts out you are relying on the panhard rod bushes for axle wrap control, which is almost the same as no axle wrap control. just pulling one bolt total (ie leave 3 in) will yield a fair bit of flex in the front without compromising axle wrap control, and it only takes 30 seconds to put the bolt back in when you go back on the road.

personally I like not having too much flex in the front, it adds a bit of control and makes for awesome wheel-up photos Wink

dow50r wrote:

I would try just one bolt on one side, (probably a front one) and try it out.
Keep the Toyota bushes and slot the holes if you need caster correction, and you will keep articulation at its best.
Andrew

holy crap imagine it under heavy throttle or braking, with half the bolts that locate the front diff missing !!

Joined: 29 May 2003 Location: hidin frm da wiminz!!!

It wont work and it will break shit if you remove both front bolts.

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

AnthonyP wrote:

It wont work and it will break shit if you remove both front bolts.

I agree. I can see the axle wrapping up under load, twisting up the draglink, panhard rod, brake lines, shocks, and possibly twisting the flange end off the pinion.

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: NEWCASTLE

yeah but fark it would flex for a no cost mod ........

its just the repair bill that would hurt ya Twisted Evil

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

its only free until you have to go the the front end shop and say 'sell me a whole bucket of front end bits, mister front end selling man'

Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Location: Cairns, (capital of Nth QLD)

Slowhilux, you should have a chat with V8Diesel (Matt) from Kowari motors, Townsville.

He was telling me about a Patrol/Cruiser ??? that had some kind of flex joint, maybe something similar to a jonny joint.

Doesn't come here much but Jake could get hold of him.

Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Location: melbourne

has anyone ever put a hinged radius arm in an toyota??
i've seen them work well in landrovers.

modman.

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

hinged radius arm?? more info? (ie wtf?) pics?

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

gday cruisers check out this url
http://www.orp.com.au/Gigantor/RIMG0055.jpg
A

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: North East Melbourne

home made 5 link

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

hrm why was it necessary to modify the original lower leading arm mounts?

been lying under my 80 all day (turbo, big end bearings) and the longer I lie there the easier teh 5 link looks Wink

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

Ive seen an excellent easy way to make a 4 link. Imagine a raised bracket above the diff pumpkin with an 80 rear lower control arm bolted to it, and facing rearward to the inside of the chassis above the driveshaft.
You then take out the front bolts of the lower control arms.
Get back under there and dream....
Andrew

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

4 links isn't enough for the front, with only one upper link (and assuming the two lower links retain only one bolt each) as you describe the axle has a sort of half degree of freedom which is hard to describe - imagine the lin-over-the-diff is actually right in the middle, makes it easier to visualise - now on articulation of under steering loads, the wheel that moves UP also moves FORWARD a little - the panhard rod provides no thrust support, only lateral, and the single upper link does not stop the 'top' of the axle rotating relative to the vehicle thrust axis. this is similar to the rear-steer that is seen in rear 3-link setups, which is allowable on-road as onroad articulation is normally very slight, and allowable off-road since you're usually going very slowly when the flex is big enough to make the steer noticable. on the front however, where steering happens, axle location must retain the axle rigidly perpendicular (or close to) the thrust axis to prevent bump steer and especially sway/lean steer, or you can end up with a vehicle that either ADDS steering the harder you push it into a corner, leading to a feedback situation which can be scary at best and deadly at worst (tweak steering wheel 1/32 turn at highway speed, end up facing the way you just came from!), or one that SUBTRACTS steering, so you have to over-control, and the faster you're going the more extra control you have to put in to compensate for the "sway-antisteer" - and as you straighten up and the vehicle sways a little bit the other way it will suddenly want to steer back the way it was just turning - scary stuff.

probably wouldn't be a problem if you were building a trails-only buggy type setup, but for something that works on the road you really need that 5th link.

I will be spending plenty of time under the 80 today, I have an oil spill to clean up (note: DO NOT start filling sump until AFTER YOU REPLACE THE OIL LEVEL SENSOR!!!! 4+ litres of oil makes a BIG slick). thank god for kitty litter.

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

Bugger....what does kitty do for its new black Castrol sox after visiting the garage for a ....???
I follow you with the geometry i think....
Andrew

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

what sort of $ is a 5 link kit? who's selling them? is there a bolt-on or do they all require welding? (don't mind welding, but prefer to be able to return it to stock configuration without too much drama if it ever needs.

don't have a cat. there used to be one that hung around the yard until we got a dog... maybe the dog ate it!

amazing how much oil that kitty litter will soak up, I spilled easily 5 litres and it's all dry now!

also my turbo install is complete Twisted Evil

Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Location: wollongong

Nick Mannell Motors sells the bolt on 5 link i think for the cruiser aswell as the nissan for sure.
Saw the kits on 4x4 monthly pages
Andrew

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Location: Shed.

hrm, know of anyone else flogging them?

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: North East Melbourne

wizard performance