Safety Officers

Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Location: Melbourne

You know back in 1931 when they built the empire state building, five workers were killed, one worker was struck by a truck, a second fell down an elevator shaft, a third was hit by a hoist, a fourth was in a blast area, and a fifth fell off a scaffold.
but these were the working conditions...

i think thats incredible that more didn't die, and look no OHS officers.

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

rr215 wrote:

You know back in 1931 when they built the empire state building, five workers were killed, one worker was struck by a truck, a second fell down an elevator shaft, a third was hit by a hoist, a fourth was in a blast area, and a fifth fell off a scaffold.
but these were the working conditions...

i think thats incredible that more didn't die, and look no OHS officers.

Ummm. Isn't that the Empire State Building in the background? Confused

Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Location: Melbourne

not thats the chrysler building, which is short than the empire state. the empire state has a stepped boxed top section. the chrysler building's top is meant to represent a chrysler/ a car (or at least the wheel of it)

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

rr215 wrote:

not thats the chrysler building, which is short than the empire state. the empire state has a stepped boxed top section. the chrysler building's top is meant to represent a chrysler/ a car (or at least the wheel of it)

Cool! Live and learn! I think the Chrysler Building looks better. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:39 am

Barnsey wrote:

One thing that annoys the crap out of me is the amount of red tape and "procedures" we have in safety these days. People who work in mining will know that you can't take a crap without writing out a Take 5 and wearing a hard hat, in fear that a supervisor or Safety Nazi will peer of the cubical and ping you for "non-compliance".

There's more

the last place i worked at, you had to fill out a W.A.B (work activity briefing) for every single thing you did in the workshop! I went as far as filling out a WAB for taking a shit, and faxed it to the OH&S manager.... who promptly proceded to piss himself laughing and scanned it and emailed it to a lot of his colleagues.... including workcover officials

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:41 am

Barnsey wrote:

My view is that these safety systems actually create hazards. We're all too busy COMPLYING with what we have to do, instead of looking at more important things like having jobs adequately resourced with manpower and equipment.

What makes a safe work place is a happy workplace, where people know that the bosses (including safety people) actually give a shit.

The current way of thinking with safety is all about compliance, and being a safety "professional" is all about compliance.

Therefore we have a genre of dickhead Safety people, with personalities suited to the task.

End Part One of Rant.

There's more

my view exactly!! you only need to look at places like Bengalla Mining Company here in the Hunter Valley..... they are SO anal about safety there, yet they have one of the highest incident rates in the mining industry. They can't come to grips with the fact that people are far too scared to even scratch without a work permit, and don't concentrate on working safely....... i hate the place!!

Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Location: North West Qld

Vulcanised wrote:

the last place i worked at, you had to fill out a W.A.B (work activity briefing) for every single thing you did in the workshop! I went as far as filling out a WAB for taking a shit, and faxed it to the OH&S manager.... who promptly proceded to piss himself laughing and scanned it and emailed it to a lot of his colleagues.... including workcover officials

I have a collection of them, including taking a shit, making toast, changing the station on the radio, picking your nose, rooting a goat........ Crying or Very sad

Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Location: NSW

Barnsey wrote:

My view is that these safety systems actually create hazards. We're all too busy COMPLYING with what we have to do, instead of looking at more important things like having jobs adequately resourced with manpower and equipment.

I won't mention company names, but we can just assume one operates a mine mentioned recently in this thread Laughing

, but there are a few mining companies in the Hunter Valley that come to mind. One thinks it's at the forefront of safety and the other wishes they were them by trying to catch up. Of both those companies, they continually have consistent injuries and accidents in the workforce. Some others that have taken safety on board, but haven't gone over the top Nazi style have relatively few and when they have them are generally minor.

Here's a great safety incentive. Offer monetary bonuses to people who can spot and dob in others who are doing something wrong. It works great, just ask those responsible for implementing it at one particular place that did just this, it really helped safety. No wait, instead of people pulling others up because they could see something was going wrong, they waited for them to do it and then ran to report their find and get their bonus, all the while that other person is still out there doing the wrong thing.

Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Location: Melbourne

Barnsey wrote:

Struth wrote:

Barnsey wrote:

Not reps............safety "professionals"

The reps are usually OK

define safety "professional"

Usually they have a Cert 4 in OH&S, maybe in TAA and what ever else falls out of the cereal box.

Generally, they have a string of "catch phrases" to impress the peasants with, such as zero harm and stuff like that.

Mostly, they are show ponies with little substance, and often do safety, because they've become sick of actually working.

Based on that description I think we better vote that they all complete and utter d**kheads.

But yes I have come across the type who got a cert or two from a weeties box but have never put any in depth thought into safety, they are almost more dangerous when they decide to work on safety than if they just stayed at home.

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:57 am

Barnsey wrote:

Are they dickheads?

Initally .... yes !

It seems this "job" requires an ability to "go by the book" attitude until they actually have some understanding about the various machines / sites they are looking at.....

This seems to take about 2 years "in the job" to actually be able to grasp the more common sence approach one see's those that have held the job for quite some time.

Once they have some time and understanding about the actual machine / site then they seem to loose the dickhead status largely. ...... so the vote then become a no vote.

We get em in on a regular basis, and the rokkie always heads straight for our 100ton press and has it banned from use instantly...... the older team member then un-bans it .
Cool

Its only when they can physically see the particular machine in opperation that they get the idea that the 'book of golden rules" wasnt written about EVERY machine on earth !

Our press doesnt have a safety guard, nor does it have a restricted enclosure, or warning signs / motion detectors / infra red sensors / twin opperator controls or emergency shutdowns.......

Obviously a death trap according to the book Shocked

But.....

When they see it in opperation they usually ask.....

"is it moving ? "

We reset the unit many years back for a greater control over what we are actually pressing and to gain a greater control over the accuracy of the degrees we are pressing to, as a result the main pressing bar moves at an astonishing rate of 1mm per second for its 150mm travel length....
As soon as the control lever is released the bar returns to the fully open position.

The press, like many of the other machines we have made or modified in our w/shop, simply doesnt fit within the "books" general rules, its only when the physical viewing of the machine opperating can the inspectpors come to grips with crazy requirements they sometimes issue.

My favourite.....
ban on the punch/cropper, needs safety guards to prevent finger crushing....

Thats fine, right up until they explained where the guards should be fitted and why in that area.
Then I showed me how it works and the guards they were suggesting would have been on the wrong side
#Rofl

Newest one.......

Must have a safety barrier around the big auger when digging foundation holes for sheds...... reason being someone might fall down the hole when you slew the auger away to offload the dirt.

Sounds fair,

reality check shows there is a higher chance of being struck buy the slewing auger than falling down the hole or actually falling over any said safety barrier

#Rofl

Safety stragety implemented.... employ ppl with enough brains in the first place

Kingy

Joined: 28 Nov 2002 Location: Melbourne

-Scott- wrote:

I think the Chrysler Building looks better. Very Happy

Couldn't agree more, it's a vastly better building. And if you like Art Deco you'll be in love with the interior, it's incredible.

Barnsey wrote:

My view is that these safety systems actually create hazards[/url]

I agree, indeed it kinda reminds me about this stupid 3km over speed law in Victoria. Everyone spends so much time looking at their speedo, they become dangerous drivers. I've had to drive to Queenscliff and back a few times recently, and the amount of people I've seen swerve when they come up to the revenue cameras as they pay attention to their speedo and not the road is bloody scary.

Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Location: Wangaratta

Barnsey wrote:

It's been a long week...........I'm up at 4.00 am gone by 4.45 am and home at 6.45 pm, 5 days a week and sometimes drop in at work on week ends, if some thing's gone to shit.....

Here's my rant:

I separate myself from your cabbage variety safety "dude" for several reasons:

I actually DO give a shit on the topic.

I never wanted to be a cop, or a parking officer, therefore, I don't get off on "busting people".

..........meh, I've had a bad week, need a camp fire and a carton of 4x.

One thing that annoys the crap out of me is the amount of red tape and "procedures" we have in safety these days. People who work in mining will know that you can't take a crap without writing out a Take 5 and wearing a hard hat, in fear that a supervisor or Safety Nazi will peer of the cubical and ping you for "non-compliance".

My view is that these safety systems actually create hazards. We're all too busy COMPLYING with what we have to do, instead of looking at more important things like having jobs adequately resourced with manpower and equipment.

What makes a safe work place is a happy workplace, where people know that the bosses (including safety people) actually give a shit.

The current way of thinking with safety is all about compliance, and being a safety "professional" is all about compliance.

Therefore we have a genre of dickhead Safety people, with personalities suited to the task.

End Part One of Rant.

There's more

I got in trouble for using a non tagged device the other day by the OH&S Nazi... A USB hard drive.

Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Location: Melbourne

Most of the safty officer's around are clown's, they have a book of reg's and they enforce it to the letter or you get fined.

When i was a a roofing, we had a safty bloke pull over and tell us the new height reg's, we are not allowed on the roof with out rail OR a harness, but then you ask how we can we put on a harness? the answer "dunno but ya can't go up there with out one"

So to go up on a roof you need to have a harness BUT you can't go up to tie it on, then you also needed to be qualified to tie one on Rolling Eyes

.

And to make it even better, when these reg's came out, these harness's needed to have a bungy cord in them so IF you fell you would not get whip lash, the problem was the recomended harness had a bungy cord that when relesed was long enough so that you would hit the ground then bounce back up Shocked

.

I did roof tiling for 11 year's and never fell, and barely used a harness or rail, just common sence armsup

.

But if you tried to explain this to a safty bloke they would look at you strange and reach for the book to throw at you Wink

.

So i'm not a fan of them, BUT i have met a couple who would listen, and make a judgment call, these bloke's have worked in the building game for year's, they had not just come in off the swing's with a chip on there shoulder cause they did'nt get enough hug's off Mum Very Happy

Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Location: Wollongong

Best safety bloke I've met wasn't a safety officer but a construction manager that new how to address things practically. Most of the guys working in Bluescope couldn't make it as parking cops and contribute very little but the arse covering is incredible.

I think one of the biggest reasons that safety officers are disliked is that whether its legitimate or not they tend to disrupt production on the surface. I know a safe work place is the only way to go and in the long term production returns or exceeds unregulated conditions but its hard to explain that to a chippy trying to get a job done.

IMO safety officers are often dickheads but the bigger dickheads are the cowboys that come out on site after working in the bush where safety is for pussies and they want to run their own race and drag you down with them.

Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Location: where ever the track takes me

Experiance shows me that saftey officers are dickheads. Not that saftey is a trivial matter becasue its not but generaly the people charged with it are dickheads. It would be nice if an ounce of comon sence was present in their minds instaed of blindly reading aftey rules and blanketing everything with the same one rule.

Prime example, yesterday I was sanding a trench. I had an idiot of bloke in the trench, whom I could not see, because he was in the blind spot of the bucket. I asked him once to get out of the trench, he got out then the next bucket hes back in the trench trying to indicate how mutch sand to put in. Second time Im not so nice " get out of the farking trench" to which he arks up. so I dump the sand all over the road and tell him to shovel it now. I go see the site forman, the bloke in the trech happens to be the saftey officer too!!. So I told the forman he had no hat on, he was in trench in my blind spots so I couldnt see him, and if there was hydroilic failier he was dead!

I know its just one example but I can recall loads of other incidents

Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Location: Wollongong

B.D.R wrote:

Most of the safty officer's around are clown's, they have a book of reg's and they enforce it to the letter or you get fined.

When i was a a roofing, we had a safty bloke pull over and tell us the new height reg's, we are not allowed on the roof with out rail OR a harness, but then you ask how we can we put on a harness? the answer "dunno but ya can't go up there with out one"

So to go up on a roof you need to have a harness BUT you can't go up to tie it on, then you also needed to be qualified to tie one on Rolling Eyes

.

And to make it even better, when these reg's came out, these harness's needed to have a bungy cord in them so IF you fell you would not get whip lash, the problem was the recomended harness had a bungy cord that when relesed was long enough so that you would hit the ground then bounce back up Shocked

.

I did roof tiling for 11 year's and never fell, and barely used a harness or rail, just common sence armsup

.

But if you tried to explain this to a safty bloke they would look at you strange and reach for the book to throw at you Wink

.

So i'm not a fan of them, BUT i have met a couple who would listen, and make a judgment call, these bloke's have worked in the building game for year's, they had not just come in off the swing's with a chip on there shoulder cause they did'nt get enough hug's off Mum Very Happy

Working at heights is always a tough one. Just because you didn't fall doesn't mean that its intrinsically safe and you can't have a rule for the unco and a rule for you so its a blanket reg. I managed a job outside the BHP safety manager's window where we had to demobilise some site sheds. Only way to do it that met the requirements was to have a mobile scaff for access then walk directly to the centre of the shed and attach a harness point.

If you're using a harness that is too long and the pendulum effect means you're going to bounce then you're not as bright as you think. There's a broad range of fall restraints available that can address this like static lines for instance.

Hardest one for me is scaffold builders - they hang themselves trying to use harnesses but I know of a few that've fallen bad enough to get brain damage so it has to be addressed some how.

Joined: 28 Nov 2002 Location: Melbourne

love_mud wrote:

I got in trouble for using a non tagged device the other day by the OH&S Nazi... A USB hard drive.

You've got to be farking kidding! Did you shove it up his arse just to check whether you really could hurt yourself with it?

Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Location: Townsville/Middle Swan WA

In my experience they're about 50 50 dick heads and not
as what kingy said the rookie and the experience
i could rant on for hours about this topic
there is working safe and theres overboard

Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Western Australia

Safety officers can go either way, Some are very reasonable and some unreasonable, depending on whether you work for the company or a contractor.

Having worked in mining, construction and the building industry to name a few, I'm more than happy to have the current safety culture in place, Ive seen some shocking work practices - and been involved in some as well.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Lost in Melbourne.

love_mud wrote:

I got in trouble for using a non tagged device the other day by the OH&S Nazi... A USB hard drive.

you should hve been marched off site, and never to return. USB doesnt need one anyway, so march him offsite!

Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Location: Townsville/Middle Swan WA

oh and i've seen 2 SO's smacked in the chops back in QLD
2 diff jobs both issueing fines
surpisingly they were both telling the guy how to do his job

#Rofl

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia

bogged wrote:

USB doesnt need one anyway, so march him offsite!

Prolly came with a power supply.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Lost in Melbourne.

rr215 wrote:

You know back in 1931 when they built the empire state building, five workers were killed, one worker was struck by a truck, a second fell down an elevator shaft, a third was hit by a hoist, a fourth was in a blast area, and a fifth fell off a scaffold.
but these were the working conditions...

i think thats incredible that more didn't die, and look no OHS officers.

Those dudes had massive kahunas...

I remember watching a bloke in Sydney jumped on a hook that was lowered down off a building site in early 70's, and hanging on with 1 hand, while having a smoke with the other gettin lifted up onto a building in Center of Sydney.... Everyone was standing there lookin at this dude, mixtures of WOW and HOLY SHIT... He was as cool as they come, thought nothing of it... thing is, we saw it happen a few times over the years.

Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Location: Wangaratta

chimpboy wrote:

bogged wrote:

USB doesnt need one anyway, so march him offsite!

Prolly came with a power supply.

Nope .. 2.5 inch one cable jobber.

Better start getting all my network leads tagged as well .. they actully carry a full 5 volts ...

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Location: western shitney

rr215 wrote:

You know back in 1931 when they built the empire state building, five workers were killed, one worker was struck by a truck, a second fell down an elevator shaft, a third was hit by a hoist, a fourth was in a blast area, and a fifth fell off a scaffold.
but these were the working conditions...

i think thats incredible that more didn't die, and look no OHS officers.

back then, common sense was a bit more common..

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Location: western shitney

-Scott- wrote:

Ummm. Isn't that the Empire State Building in the background? Confused

i thought the exact same thing when i got to NY

Embarassed

i even took a pic of it from our hotel window (because i couldnt see the empire state building, and the chrysler one looked better anyway) and emailed it to friends saying heres a pic of the empire state building Embarassed

lucky nobody picked up on it Laughing

Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: Townsville

V8Patrol wrote:

Safety stragety implemented.... employ ppl with enough brains in the first place

Bingo, got it in one....

The more you defer to legislation/acts/policies/procedures, the more you remove the onus on the individual to do the right thing in the first place. This is why these gentlemen (Empire State Bldg) were able to work in the conditions they were in with so (relatively) few deaths and incidents. A bit like what they have done in some countries in Europe by removing the white lines in major, complex intersections. This has resulted in no-one assuming they are "In the right", and more care taken by everyone around the intersections. Sometimes less is more.

Barnsey, get some builders ply, some nails and some paint and build youself a coffin to leave outside the safety office door with a sign on it "Free, to whoever needs it"

Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Western Australia

DAMKIA wrote:

V8Patrol wrote:

Safety stragety implemented.... employ ppl with enough brains in the first place

Bingo, got it in one....

The more you defer to legislation/acts/policies/procedures, the more you remove the onus on the individual to do the right thing in the first place. This is why these gentlemen (Empire State Bldg) were able to work in the conditions they were in with so (relatively) few deaths and incidents. A bit like what they have done in some countries in Europe by removing the white lines in major, complex intersections. This has resulted in no-one assuming they are "In the right", and more care taken by everyone around the intersections. Sometimes less is more.

Barnsey, get some builders ply, some nails and some paint and build youself a coffin to leave outside the safety office door with a sign on it "Free, to whoever needs it"

If it was only that easy eh! How many hand, eye, back, lost limbs etc etc injuries did they have? Common sense can still prevail, you just need to get rid of the cowboy element.

Joined: 18 Oct 2004

j-top paj wrote:

rr215 wrote:

You know back in 1931 when they built the empire state building, five workers were killed, one worker was struck by a truck, a second fell down an elevator shaft, a third was hit by a hoist, a fourth was in a blast area, and a fifth fell off a scaffold.
but these were the working conditions...

i think thats incredible that more didn't die, and look no OHS officers.

back then, common sense was a bit more common..

... and dodgy record keeping was a bit more common. as a comparison apparently over 130 died building the brooklyn bridge.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Empire.State.Building.2.234848.html reckons 14 died during construction. Anyones guess what the real number is.
As for SOs my main experience of them was during a stint in the mines. Leave a hose on the ground or start a job without doing a take 5 and it's the end of the earth. On the other hand if a digger has blown a hose and the hyd oil needs filling up don't worry about all the rails having been knocked off or that the walking surface is covered in oil and it's pissing down rain making it slippery as greased bat shit. All backs got turned if it meant getting production up again.

Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Location: NSW

devo wrote:

On the other hand if a digger has blown a hose and the hyd oil needs filling up don't worry about all the rails having been knocked off or that the walking surface is covered in oil and it's pissing down rain making it slippery as greased bat shit. All backs got turned if it meant getting production up again.

Don't be like that, that stuff doesn't happen.

A certain mining company in the Hunter Vally has what they call "the golden rules" break any one of them and you will take much more then just a pineapple. Anyone who works in the mining industry around the Hunter Valley will know those rules, which company i am talking about and what they do to people who break them.

One morning one of their sites had an issue with part of their Drag Line. The Service Provider contracted to them couldn't fix it. So the company i worked for was called (we designed and installed the particular part), they were rightfully told to get stuffed as they weren't a contract client as those clients had priority for after hours service naturally. After about 18 hours of this drag line being parked up not working they finally offered bonus money to our company to come fix it and it was agreed upon.

It's amazing the lack of safety that eventuates in that situation. I wasn't inducted to the site, i didn't sign on anywhere, completed no risk formal risk assessment or any work permits and broke every single one of their "golden rules" all to the knowledge of and direction of the Shift Supervisor, Open Cut Examiner and Mine Manager Rolling Eyes

Admittedly, I had been inducted and worked at the place before, knew the place quite well and the work i did was nothing more then sitting in the operators cab, plugging a lap top in and reprogramming. Nothing was done any different to how it would have been done if all the paperwork had been completed, but it's amazing how a site that's so strict on making sure every i is dotted and t is crossed on every piece of paper before a job is started can throw it all away when a Drag Line is parked up not digging for nearly a day.