TUFF TRUCK IS SAVED!!!!!

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:35 pm

I have it on good authority that Tuff Truck has been saved by a group of dedicated people who are already well known in the 4WD fraternity!
Good news is that it will definately be held but a date is yet to be confirmed.
The new owners apparently take over the reins officially in 6 weeks time.
There has been some talk that they are looking at ways to improve upon the current voting system......anyone got any thoughts on this?
From what I am hearing, the original format wont be changed, so all seems to be good!
armsup

To say I'm excited is an understatement!! armsup

Joined: 22 Oct 2002

That is good NEWS!

Heres an idea in regards to picking the competitors!

Choose 60 of australias TUFFEST (i doubt there would be that many) Rigs.

Each DRIVER than gets a list of the competitors and they are required to mark from 59 to 1 who they think should be there (1 being, the most like to see) and they can't vote for themselves!

The 30 rigs with the lowest scores get to go!!!!!

You will find that all the BIG guns will be there as everyone wants to have a go at beating them and it also allows for someone that is known to GET IT AWNN and wheel hard to get in there aswell!

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:07 pm

Cool! Good concept!!!!
But how would the underdogs get in? Wouldn't everyone be voting for the big boys?
What about guys that do the backyard buildups that need to get a start somewhere?

Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane

Squik wrote:

Cool! Good concept!!!!
But how would the underdogs get in? Wouldn't everyone be voting for the big boys?
What about guys that do the backyard buildups that need to get a start somewhere?

Tuff Truck isn't for novices or untested vehicles. As the most prestigeous hardcore 4wd event in Aus, the quality of the entrants must be at the highest level. This is meant to showcase the Aussie talent.

Joined: 22 Oct 2002

Squik wrote:

Cool! Good concept!!!!
But how would the underdogs get in? Wouldn't everyone be voting for the big boys?
What about guys that do the backyard buildups that need to get a start somewhere?

I know what you meen about the guy that has built a rig and no one knows him!

THIS meens either!

The rig has just been built and has not been in a comp yet!!!

OR

The driver has never entered a COMP before, so no one knows who he is!

OR

He he enters comps all the time and drives like a skirt and is boring to watch!

In the first two senarios if the Rig or Driver has never been in a comp before than WHY SHOULD they be in Australia BIGGEST COMP anyway! I know there are guys out there that say there not interested in COMPs yet when it comes time to getting there picture taken at TTC they want in!!!

The third senario speaks for itself! Laughing

Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Location: Brisbane

look at all the comps around australia....XRCC, woodpecker, nissan trials, ascc etc and invite everyone who competed to nominate if they'd like to enter tuff truck. maybe give free entry, or at least a guaranteed start, to, say winner of each comp, then like POS said, have the competitors vote in who they'd like to see

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:29 pm

I catch your drift. Suggest the top 10 last year get auto entry maybe? Then go from there......
Im not talking nobodys, but talented guys who kick arse with self-build as well to the pro-guys who build awesome rigs for big dollars.....
Dunno.....all I know is Im too excited to sleep....as you can tell!! Very Happy

Joined: 08 Nov 2002 Location: Sydney

let the top guns run but give them a handicap, say dobbins and pete a can only run up to a 38" tyre

Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Location: Driving my GU in Melbourne

there is no completely fair way of voting people in, it always comes down to majority of people who like something, in reality a popularity contest.

I think the method that has been used works as the competitors have been by and large worthy. You need an event like this to be covered by magazines and the best way to do that is to use a mag for the polling procedure.

i don't reckon you will find 50 rigs of the calibre POS is hoping to vote from. Also you cannot discount people just because they haven't competed in events before. There are vehicles in Vic that maybe capable of competing successfully at TT that haven't competed before because of the $$$$ involved in getting to and from the events in NSW & QLD.

I also will be surprised if unregistered vehicles are allowed to compete because of insurance issues altho I hope they can.

the idea of past top ten getting automatic entry sucks a bit because it will end up with the same people all the time. It needs to encourage new people to compete to keep the sport growing. Maybe restrict it to 2 years in a row then you have to have a year break.

Why isn't it open to novices or untested vehicles I seem to recall that Sam Keck was a novice and in an untested vehicle before the first TT. Would you discourage him from entering.

Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Location: Driving my GU in Melbourne

spazbot wrote:

let the top guns run but give them a handicap, say dobbins and pete a can only run up to a 38" tyre

Why, Pete hasn't won it so why would him having bigger than 38s be an advantage (Not having a go at him) - but competition doesn't mean the "best" car or driver always win. There are a lot of factors that make a winning vehicle. Skill, vehicle setup, luck, not breaking stuff, the other competitors

Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Location: Brisbane

grimbo wrote:

the idea of past top ten getting automatic entry sucks a bit because it will end up with the same people all the time. It needs to encourage new people to compete to keep the sport growing. Maybe restrict it to 2 years in a row then you have to have a year break.

but the comp has to be supported by the general public as well as the 'hardcore' offroad guys for it to succeed, and as you can see by every other motor sport, the biggest, loudest, most insane machine will draw the crowds. it might not be the best machine for the course, and it may be hugh overkill, but i'm sure most 'normal' people, would be attracted to a 53in tyred, rear steering, 454 sporting monster, then a well set up little buggy on 35's.

what i'm saying is, you need the 'big guns' to enter to get the public involved, and just think how good it'd be to beat some of the big guys in your home built rig that you've slaved away at for years Twisted Evil

Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Location: Driving my GU in Melbourne

antt wrote:

grimbo wrote:

the idea of past top ten getting automatic entry sucks a bit because it will end up with the same people all the time. It needs to encourage new people to compete to keep the sport growing. Maybe restrict it to 2 years in a row then you have to have a year break.

but the comp has to be supported by the general public as well as the 'hardcore' offroad guys for it to succeed, and as you can see by every other motor sport, the biggest, loudest, most insane machine will draw the crowds. it might not be the best machine for the course, and it may be hugh overkill, but i'm sure most 'normal' people, would be attracted to a 53in tyred, rear steering, 454 sporting monster, then a well set up little buggy on 35's.

what i'm saying is, you need the 'big guns' to enter to get the public involved, and just think how good it'd be to beat some of the big guys in your home built rig that you've slaved away at for years Twisted Evil

yes you need them to compete but you also can't discourage others from entering and more importantly competing. i realise it isn't going to be easy to balance the two but to have only the "big dogs" competing makes for a short lived event.

Remember the vast majority of the spectators who went to TT more than likely don't read this forum or know some of these "big dogs" but will vote for the car that looks like theirs or their mate Dickos fully sick one.

It has to be a popularity based event initially as we don't have the talent base to pull from yet. This sport on that level is still very young and small. We have to encourage its growth by letting some of the newer guys with maybe not the most full on vehicles a chance to compete. it is only then that they will progress. Again Sam keck is the perfect example look where he is now compared to the first TT.

Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Location: Bowen Mountain

to get the best of both worlds a possible scenario is to let 60 in stead of the usual 30 entries compete. these are the Prelim rounds on saturday and the top 15 or so scores from that day go on to compete on the sunday for the title.

to choose the starting 60 could be a combo of placings in other relevent hard-core events (eg q-rock, woodpecka, previous tuff truck) and commitee voting, spectator voting for more, plus a seperate spectator vote for 3 or 4 'wildcard' spots for event novices.

This way you get a mix of the proven performers, crowd favourites, and newbies.

hopefully the scene matures so that we see a situation where tuff truck is the FINAL in a series of events theroughout the year, so everyone gets a go but the best is there when it should be!!!

just my 2c Smile

Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Location: Driving my GU in Melbourne

the logistics of trying to run 60 cars for just a day would be a nightmare let alone then having to cull them down to 30. On top off this handling x amount of spectators etc. the simpler the better.

I reckon you want max 20 competitors, voting as past, more food available at the site, no alcohol in the spectating areas (make it easier for insurance), dirt berms around the events so more people can see. Keep vehicles out of the comp area other than competitors and required recovery vehicles.

Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Location: Lost in Melbourne.

POS wrote:

In the first two senarios if the Rig or Driver has never been in a comp before than WHY SHOULD they be in Australia BIGGEST COMP anyway!

Why shouldnt he..?

What if he bought Yellow Petes truck? its sorta worth entering in comps aint it?

what if the driver has an attitude like BJ, that could be worth watching?

I think there should be some sort of prelim comp, to weed out the pussies...

Maybe make it a 3 round thing, Top 30 go to the final which is THE Tuff Truck itself?

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:07 pm

this is good lots of good ideas!!!!

my observations for the 2 previous Tuff Trucks would be......

definitely some dirt berms, or perhaps some of that dodgy seating that collapses in 3rd world countries, or build the tracks up, they seem to all be down low, even the ones without water, build them up a bit higher for better viewing.

more organisation and maps and handouts to people as they enter, so people dont just look for crowd movement and tag along to find an event.

more tug-o-wars with snatch strap like the last TT.

more mud! hey i lurv it!

and less "officials" who are just friends of organisers wearing TT shirts and sitting inside the bunting with a good view. alot of the ones im reffering to look quite underage. and generally do nothing!!!

and howabout a big ass crane to lift the competitors off the track.
make it a rule yo uhave to have points so they can be lifted out of the way when they brake or time out.
the first year was unbelievably bad, 2nd was almost as bad.

or someone in the TLCC get a big ass John Deere tractor hook a huge chain or strap to the trucks and drag the bastards outta the way so the next victim can step up.....

if anyone knows the new owners feel free to pass these tips along... and i will take my free t shirt at the gate cheers!

Joined: 22 Oct 2002

I don't see the need to penalise someone who wants to run huge tyres and hydrolics, i am yet to see the hydrolics do anything awesome except on the travel ramp!

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

POS wrote:

That is good NEWS!

Heres an idea in regards to picking the competitors!

Choose 60 of australias TUFFEST (i doubt there would be that many) Rigs.

Each DRIVER than gets a list of the competitors and they are required to mark from 59 to 1 who they think should be there (1 being, the most like to see) and they can't vote for themselves!

The 30 rigs with the lowest scores get to go!!!!!

You will find that all the BIG guns will be there as everyone wants to have a go at beating them and it also allows for someone that is known to GET IT AWNN and wheel hard to get in there aswell!

This is the best idea i have heard for deciding who competes at this comp.

This way a rig wont get voted in because its cute or just looks cool. And it doesnt mater how much money the TTC entrant or Entrants sponsor has as they wont be able to buy there way in by buying a 100mags and sending all the votes in.

And it doesnt realy have to be the 60 tuffest rigs that choose. Maybe just pick 10 competitors top vote from each of the major comps that are allready running.

Joined: 27 Oct 2002 Location: Sydney

Then you have the problem of who chooses the 60 Confused

And Joe Public isn't involved in the final lineup, whick I think is a big seller.

Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Location: bacabugari

how about ......
everyone can nominate,
then the nominees get sent a voting form 3 months before the event
then all those who nominate do as pos said and vote for their favorite 30 competitors
then the top 30 guys as judged by their peers get to compete.

problems i can see is for example: ballsac does not want strangerover to win so he doesn't vote for him [example only before anyone gets upset]
or "biggerbugger"is a fantastic driver but nobody likes him so no one votes for him...etc

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

Shorty40 wrote:

Then you have the problem of who chooses the 60 Confused

And Joe Public isn't involved in the final lineup, whick I think is a big seller.

You just use the top 10 competitors from all the major comps to vote.

Do you realy think Joe Public has ever realy had anything to do with the final line up at TTC Rolling Eyes

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

big red wrote:

problems i can see is for example: ballsac does not want strangerover to win so he doesn't vote for him [example only before anyone gets upset]
or "biggerbugger"is a fantastic driver but nobody likes him so no one votes for him...etc

Then you do it the way POS has described but if you are a TTC entrant you are not eligable to vote.

Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Location: bacabugari

i also reckon there should be no restrictions on mods ....the nominees who vote would obviously not vote for someone driving a four wheel bulldozer so it should be self regulating.

Joined: 22 Oct 2002

big red wrote:

problems i can see is for example: ballsac does not want strangerover to win so he doesn't vote for him [example only before anyone gets upset]
or "biggerbugger"is a fantastic driver but nobody likes him so no one votes for him...etc

I think this is the least of the problems!

You would find that it would be the other way round!

WHY WOULD BALSAC NOT WANT SAM THERE. IF HE WON AND SAM WASN'T IN IT, ALL HE WOULD HEAR FOR THE NEXT YEAR IS "I STILL THINK IF SAM WAS THERE HE WOULD HAVE FLOGGED EVERYONE"

Also by having 60 or so People voting, 1 vote would not effect the final outcome greatly!

As for who choose the 60 nominated rigs, then let 4WD mOnthly choose, they would see more rigs around OZ than anyone else, they would also know about these AWESOME backyard creations that have never competed anywhere Rolling Eyes

!!!

I also still find it hard to believe that there are 60 RIGS out there that could handle the pace and attitude of which the sport is developing, so i think at the end of the day the final 60 would in fact be the 60 TUFFEST in OZ and then from there the Final 30 would be the 30 Tuffest in OZ and then from there the TOP rig is the TUFFEST TRUCK in OZ!!!!!!!!!

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

big red wrote:

i also reckon there should be no restrictions on mods ....the nominees who vote would obviously not vote for someone driving a four wheel bulldozer so it should be self regulating.

I agrea. And i will be a entering again this year. And my rig wont be much different to what it is now. No rear steer,No hydro Suspension,38" tyres. Im not concerned that rear steer,Hydro suspension and 44 and up tyred rigs will be there.

Joined: 20 Oct 2002

Having the competitors vote wouldnt work at all.

Everybody would just vote for the worst rigs to give themselves the best chance of winning. You would end up with the worst rigs out of the bunch and not the best.

You need people who are totally dedicated to the success of the competition and who know what makes a good rig having a say in the line up.

So I would do what was proposed when we last talked about this.

10 entrants from last tuff truck
10 entrants from magazine voting
10 entrants from the event sponsors

And they would pic the rigs in that order so that the sponsors can look at what rigs have been accepted and then they can choose the last 10.

Now maybe you should just offer the top 10 placings a spot and if they dont want it then give that selection to the voting or sponsors. OR you could just work your way down the entrants until you get 10 entrants from the last comp.

They should also ban winching - its dangerous for spectators and boaring to watch. IMO the biggest issue is spectator safety - winching with spectators so close is absolutely asking for trouble - just a time bomb until somone gets hurt IMO.

Sam

Sam

Joined: 22 Oct 2002

Yeah, i know how i would VOTE and i would imagine most of us would vote. But like you said there would be a fair few that would WANT TO WIN and simply vote for the shitters!

I see your point!

TOTALLY AGREE ON THE WINCHING!!!!

Joined: 20 Oct 2002 Location: Greenbank

Strange Rover wrote:

Having the competitors vote wouldnt work at all.

Im saying use competitors from other Comps to do the voting not TTC competitors. If you are a current entrant in TTC you cant vote.

Joined: 20 Oct 2002

Also you would want the rigs that the sponsors chose to be published (and the voters selection and last years selection as well) so that they would be less tempted to give rigs that just ran their products an entry and would be more inclined to select rigs that are going to produce a great event. I would think that the sponsors would choose rigs that will produce a great event anyway.

If they were to ban winching then they would have to be very carefull on how the tracks were designed to have obstacles that became progressively harder. Classic example is rocky horror and mini wiraby. Both these courses had the hard part mid section and would DNF most competitors at that point. If these stages had the hardest part at the end then they would work awesome without any winching. Rigs wouldnt be able to wuse out and winch the hard parts either. Would make for a better event.

The courses need to be shorter and harder. They shortned the tracks from the first event for tuff truck 2 and they should do the same again. Shorter tracks also mean easier recovery. The tracks should be setup with this in mind. They could also have a few more stages if they were shortened and recoveries were made easier.

And of course the stages should be harder - alot harder. I want to see Antunac and Dobbin really have a go and use some of that horsepower that they got and break their shiat all over the place. Twisted Evil

Fawk yea!!

Sam

Joined: 20 Oct 2002

RUFF wrote:

Strange Rover wrote:

Having the competitors vote wouldnt work at all.

Im saying use competitors from other Comps to do the voting not TTC competitors. If you are a current entrant in TTC you cant vote.

That would work but how do you choose who can vote. I think you would just end up wth alot of winch challenge rigs and none from xrcc. The voting would go same way as the numbers in the most popular competitions which is winch challenge type events IMO.

Sam