60series steering upgrade on the 40

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

RAY185 wrote:

Andy, what brand steering dampener do you want? I can get you Monroe or Maxitrac unless you were thinking something else.

These guys are good for high pressure hoses, they'll come to you and make one to suit.

http://www.mobileautohoses.com.au/

Ring them for a price.

I was going to get one from the wreckers initially along with a high pressure line from a 60, again from the wreckers..

i figure i've paid $250 for the bits for the conversion so I'll make sure I can get all the bits I can for the $$

I'll keep the hose dude in mind.. i doubt they'd come out on sunday or mondays eh..

worst case i was going to pay enzed a visit on nudgee road tomorrow after I visit you..

I dummied up all the steering shafts and pleased to report all the bits fit..

Joined: 21 May 2004 Location: Brisbane North

Yeah not sure about saturdays but definately not this monday (pub hol). Enzed would be good but keep in mind I think there is a need for a right angle fitting at the pump end, can't remember why.... I think the 60 hose comes out straight? I did the hose last after everything was mounted so the hose went exactly where I wanted.

If you can get a decent dampener from the wreckers go for gold but don't pay too much, $75-$80 gets you a new one.

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

i used the 60 dampener bracket no issue.

when i was running the 2f, i used the 60 series lines no worries, although i had to get creative to use up all the line. now i'm going ford motor, i'm going to get a proper one made up

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

any idea if the fittings are the same at both ends for the high pressure line?? I brought the 60 box with me to take to Enzed so I can ensure the right sized fittings are purchased.

I guess being a high pressure line there will be the need to crimp it..

Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Location: the sticks - Tas

very good, very good. Not intertested in running a heavy RTC dampener?
such as a tuff dogg??

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

Reddo wrote:

very good, very good. Not intertested in running a heavy RTC dampener?
such as a tuff dogg??

hey Reddo,

not yet.. my steering pump needs a reco and I figure its just added expense at the moment and fatigue on the pump if i go that way right now. If i find the bigger bore 60 or 75 dampener isn't providing much dampening i might move up to that..

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

just chased up the wreckers and they have got a chassis bracket + dampener from a 60 at no extra charge!

i'll get the missus to pick it up on saturday mornin.. Smile

last thing to get is the high pressure hoses...

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

shorty_f0rty wrote:

any idea if the fittings are the same at both ends for the high pressure line?? I brought the 60 box with me to take to Enzed so I can ensure the right sized fittings are purchased.

I guess being a high pressure line there will be the need to crimp it..

pretty sure they are... i'll check mine when i get home if you like.

heavy duty return to centre dampeners are just a bandaid to disquise issues with your steering geometry. i'd much rather be able to feel when something wasn't up to speed

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

bad_religion_au wrote:

shorty_f0rty wrote:

any idea if the fittings are the same at both ends for the high pressure line?? I brought the 60 box with me to take to Enzed so I can ensure the right sized fittings are purchased.

I guess being a high pressure line there will be the need to crimp it..

pretty sure they are... i'll check mine when i get home if you like.

heavy duty return to centre dampeners are just a bandaid to disquise issues with your steering geometry. i'd much rather be able to feel when something wasn't up to speed

No need thanks Adam,

Ray lent me a power steer pump to take to enzed.. $120 later and the high pressure line is sorted..

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

bad_religion_au wrote:

yep, should work a treat, that's the way i did mine. don't forget that if it's too long, you can shorten it by drilling out the plastic bung and "tapping" the shaft with a hammer because they are collapseable columns.

well.. i have just dummied up things today. I think the intermedia shaft will be too long.. on it there are two divots where I think its holding the part that slides.. Adam is this what you mean to drill out? (its probly a 2-3mm hole).. did you do anything to the shaft after you made it fit to length? to stop it sliding unexpectedly?

The 55 steering column shaft goes in sweet.. i used the outer column from the 55 so it kinda sits flush with the firewall. although it pushes the steering wheel into the cab by about 20-30mm. you dont notice it too much sitting at the wheel.

I was hoping this would help in relation to the length of the intermediate shaft. i think the 80 cushion joint adds considerable length to the rod.. if it was just a single uni it would be a bit shorter and maybe the intermidiate shaft wouldn't need shortening

The steering arms went on ok (with a little work) without having to pull down the hubs/knuckles all the way.. this was good as I wasn't really looking forward to the extra work there.. (thanks for your pointers with that Ray).

there is considerably more meat on the 75 steering arms eh.. good to see

managed to get the old TRE's off the Tie rod and drag link from the wreckers after a bit of work.. new TRE's are in place but I need to put anti-sieze on the threads and thought I might put some anti rust stuff down the guts of the steering rods.

mocked up where the box goes without doing any work on the shock tower.. this is tomorrows job (grinding, cutting, mounting box)..

glad to finally see all the old steering gear out for good!

thanks for everyones help so far.. so far its been a relatively straight forward mod with no major issues.

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

yep those two divots are probably the pins that hold the collapseable column in place.

as the column has a well greased slip joint already, and the collapseable section is quite... stiff... to slide in and out (i needed a sledgy to persuade it), the slip joint moves before the collapseable section will.

just remember to protect the splines if your going to hit the end of the column! i almost stuffed mine because i wasn't thinking.

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

cheers adam.. i was going to drill those out and maybe reposition the shaft to the correct lenght and redrill some new hole, place some rivit pins through it to hold it and stop it from moving..

i noticed with the 62 box that the pitman arm is quite low.. how much room do others have from their pitman arm to the top of th leave spring.. wouldnt this affect the spring compression? i htink I have roughly 90mm between bottom of drag link to top of spring and there is about 110-120mm between bumpstop and top of axel..

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

shorty_f0rty wrote:

cheers adam.. i was going to drill those out and maybe reposition the shaft to the correct lenght and redrill some new hole, place some rivit pins through it to hold it and stop it from moving..

i noticed with the 62 box that the pitman arm is quite low.. how much room do others have from their pitman arm to the top of th leave spring.. wouldnt this affect the spring compression? i htink I have roughly 90mm between bottom of drag link to top of spring and there is about 110-120mm between bumpstop and top of axel..

i know some people have had issues, others haven't. i honestly don't think mine hits, but i haven't flexed it up in ages. i know Pcman's hit on his 40 when he did it the first time.

if it's an issue, a pitman arm off of a 75 series is flat from memory, or add bigger bumpstops, it's only 20mm up travel your losing.

also it's a bit hard to tell in the pic, but the one where you've clamped the box onto the chassis, it looks like you could rotate it (front up, back down) a tad so the pitman arm is raised a little, and still have it clear the chassis.

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

hmm.. yep i've tried to position the box so its runs as close to the chassis as possible..

a pic full lock left:

a pic full lock to the right:

the tie rod probably clears the pumpkin by about 10mm at full lock right

front on shot

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

ah yep, it's a bit clearer with those pics. not the room i thought there was.

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

yeh its all good.. I've mounted the box so if a 75 pitman arm is needed it would still clear..

had a few interuptions today which was a PITA and I only got half a day spent on it..

managed to get a few holes and backing plate drilled tonight..

got the ford shock towers too (THANKS TWISTY & BOOF!) so they are going on tomorrow too

I wanted to flip my rear hangers but I'll have to see how I go for time..

I didnt get to modify the intermediate shaft yet. maaan i'm glad tomorrow is a public holiday!

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Location: melbourne australia

you gain about 20mm extra using a 75 series arm

i had to do this on mine as i didnt mount the box correctly and didnt have enough clearance

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

hey pcman.. thanks for the heads up.. we'll see how it goes once its all flexed up.. I was thinking if i go back to slightly shorter shackles than the distance on compression will be less.. but we'll see..

Joined: 21 May 2004 Location: Brisbane North

That pitman arm looks a bit lower than my 60 arm from the pic (and my memory). I'll have a look at mine tomorrow as it might be somewhere in between the full drop of that 62 arm and the flat 75 arm. Looking good though Andy. armsup

Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Location: the sticks - Tas

RAY185 wrote:

That pitman arm looks a bit lower than my 60 arm from the pic (and my memory). I'll have a look at mine tomorrow as it might be somewhere in between the full drop of that 62 arm and the flat 75 arm. Looking good though Andy. armsup

thats correct ray. the 60 arm dose not come down that far. That arm is a lot lower than mine. You couldnt get away with that box if you went SOA, and ran flatter packs. Will a 60 arm fit that box?

But like you said, its a matter of working with what you have, and that will work fine.

Are you placing some crush tube in that chassie?

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

yep reddo thats the plan.. i'll run with it and see how it goes..

well the drilling of the backing plate and the chassis was a major PITA.. i spent most of today drilling 2 12mm holes.. after they were done i discoverd two captured nuts on the otherside of the chassis next to where the bolts for the box go through..

anyway..

intermediate shaft mounted and tight
box mounted with crush tubes and backing plate
tie rod, drag link and steering dampener on
dampener bracket is on the chassis

still left to do..

mount 1 ford shock tower (I wont have time to do the other today)
remount fender
bleed brakes
bleed power steer
test drive

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

yay .. .all done!

need some more power steering fluid.. but there is enough there to make the power steer work..

need to get used to the new position of the steering wheel and find somewhere for the water overflow for the radiator.. can i run with out this for a day??

I'll get some completed pix up in the morning.. too dark now and i'm stuffed..

Joined: 21 May 2004 Location: Brisbane North

Sweet Andy, if you don't have any cooling issues it won't worry it to not have the overflow bottle there for a day. So what do you think of it over the standard POS 40 p/s?

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

well.. I had some trouble finding some power steering fluid last night.. only got enough in there to JUST register on the dipstick. this allowed for a bit of power assist but not much..

to be perfectly honest I think the 40 p/s was a bit lighter.. but it could be due to the fluid needing to be bleed.

I just have to drive it more to find out.. the box is a bit more touchier.. ie, you dont have to turn the steering wheel as much to change direction.

there are still a few things to sort out until its all done
- shorter bolts for the box
- flip the chassis bracket for the dampener
- maybe find a flatter pitman arm
- fix leaking power steer pump

I noticed when i topped up the fluid the stuff that was in there was full of bubbles.. probly not a good sign but i dont think its anything to do with the box, more likely the pump.

you can kinda see the angle of the dampener.. i dont think its right.. flipping the bracket around should fix this.

only got time to put one shock tower on.. i'll do the other on the weekend.

Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Location: Sydney

shorty_f0rty wrote:

well.. I had some trouble finding some power steering fluid last night.. only got enough in there to JUST register on the dipstick. this allowed for a bit of power assist but not much..

to be perfectly honest I think the 40 p/s was a bit lighter.. but it could be due to the fluid needing to be bleed.

I just have to drive it more to find out.. the box is a bit more touchier.. ie, you dont have to turn the steering wheel as much to change direction.

there are still a few things to sort out until its all done
- shorter bolts for the box
- flip the chassis bracket for the dampener
- maybe find a flatter pitman arm
- fix leaking power steer pump

I noticed when i topped up the fluid the stuff that was in there was full of bubbles.. probly not a good sign but i dont think its anything to do with the box, more likely the pump.

you can kinda see the angle of the dampener.. i dont think its right.. flipping the bracket around should fix this.

only got time to put one shock tower on.. i'll do the other on the weekend.

hi mate
sounds like your pump is still cavitating, it will take a while before all your bubbles are out and the power assist works properly. It will get lighter.

Jes

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: Your Mummas House!

you ran crush spacers in the chassis right?

It is very common for the bolts holding your box to come loose, if you dont brace the chassis... check them often

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

bj on roids wrote:

you ran crush spacers in the chassis right?

It is very common for the bolts holding your box to come loose, if you dont brace the chassis... check them often

yep.. m12 high tensile bolts with spring washers and nyloc nuts with crush tubes in the chassis and a 6mm backing plate.. i will keep a close eye on them.. i guess i should have used some locktite on em eh?

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: Your Mummas House!

shorty_f0rty wrote:

bj on roids wrote:

you ran crush spacers in the chassis right?

It is very common for the bolts holding your box to come loose, if you dont brace the chassis... check them often

yep.. m12 high tensile bolts with spring washers and nyloc nuts with crush tubes in the chassis and a 6mm backing plate.. i will keep a close eye on them.. i guess i should have used some locktite on em eh?

nah, they'll be right, you can get some movement down the chassis there is all

Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Location: the sticks - Tas

like any pump, you will need to bleed the system. so remember to jack the whole front end up, and rotate the wheel from lock to lock (slowly - like when your pulling into maccers and pimping). those air bubbles are just that, air.

The 40 box will be ligher, however, powersteering, is just an assistant, and when you want to steer out of that rut, bank, curb, it will help you out.

Joined: 06 May 2007 Location: Maitland NSW

Hi Guys,

I'm following this closely cause I'm about to do the same to my 40 in a month or two ... starting to source parts in the next few weeks etc...

TWISTY wrote:

thing I hate about my setup is the 75 series column, would have modified the stock one or used a 55 series one if I did it again.

Out of curiosity... what is it about the 75 column that you don't like?