Hiclone advice

Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Location: Working Holiday - UK

Are these things worth the money?? does anyone have/use one? is there any noticable difference in the V6 motor??

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Location: "Shit"ney

Don't bother.

Put one in a little over six months ago (had a bit of a win and thought "what the Hell") and the only difference I felt was a slighlty smoother idle.

Apart from that - nardafuknthing.

Give one a go though if you want as anyone who sells and installs them will give your money back if you don't like it.

Blair

Joined: 04 Nov 2002 Location: perth western australia

i had a hiclone in my paj made no differance to my motor

i dont know how they come up with there fuel saving claims they are a load of sh###########it

Joined: 28 Jan 2004

It is the biggest rip off, and to be allowed to go on for so long disturbs me.

It comes down to head design and port shape. These are the items that affect the swirl in the cylinder that mixes the Air/Fuel together. Twirling the air before hand will have very little effect until it is mixed with the fuel and in the cylinder.

Once again people I remind you. OEM car companies make sales based on fuel consumption. This is a key ingredient to car sales for many. If you could put a simple device such as a Hiclone in and give you 10% etc better fuel consumption, well, I think they would have them in there.

And they are not. That tells you how good the hiclones are.

LJ

Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Location: USA

I agree, any swirl it gives will be totally removed by the runners in the plenum. You might as well stick some cow patties in your air box, because it is all bullshit. The Finger

Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Location: Working Holiday - UK

I had a suspision they were a crock, thanks for your input!! i wont bother. Ima lready getting 12L/100km on the highway/commuting which i feel is pretty good for a fourby!

Another item i tried after buying it at the sydney motor show was a spark divider which split the spark of the spark plug into smaller sparks - they claimed it improved power/perfomace and fuel economy. i tried it on my mini and took it back a day later and got my $100 back!!

Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Location: Adelaide

Hi Andrew

12l/100km stikes me as pretty good! I'm struggling to do much better than 13, where a couple of years ago I could get low 11s. Recently I've started to wonder about injectors - have you ever had yours "serviced" in any way?

Cheers,

Scott

Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Location: Working Holiday - UK

Scott, nope never had them serviced. not sure about the original owners though as the service records were a bit scratchy. I usually run optimax/premium unleaded every few tankfulls which helps.

Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Location: Gold Coast - Pac Pines

On my 2003 Challenger I got 11.2L/100K's when I first bought it, haven't done an economy calc for a while now but I'm off on a trip over the weekend so I'll might have a look at it.

FYI the economy sticker that is on all new cars now said it would do 12.5L/100km... so I figure I'm doing OK.

Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Location: Williamstown, Melbourne

guys I had one on my cruiser and it worked..Naturally aspirated diesel went from 13/100k to about 11.5/100k... Dont think it would work on anything turbocharged but I think it depends on the rig...just my thoughts...cheers...Dave Laughing

Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Location: USA

RustyNail wrote:

guys I had one on my cruiser and it worked..Naturally aspirated diesel went from 13/100k to about 11.5/100k... Dont think it would work on anything turbocharged but I think it depends on the rig...just my thoughts...cheers...Dave Laughing

I don't want to call you wrong, but something else changed in favor of gas mileage, it certainly wasn't the hunk of tin obstruction in your air box. You changed your driving habits, the god smiled on your favor, something. But it wasn't that.

Do you think that the marketing guys, not engineers, that designed those things, know more than the engineering geniuses that have been building trucks for all these years, especially now with all the huge computer design that goes into intakes and what not. If they really worked, every rig off the production line would have one built in as OEM.

Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Location: Williamstown, Melbourne

I hate to say it but my driving habits didnt change at all. On my car with my driving it worked, simple as that... For some other vehicles it may not work as well but for an old diesel which needs some help, it worked... Cool

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

Ok I think a manufacturer of any after market product who backs it with a money back guarantee is a good deal (as long as they stick to it).
I know a bloke with a swb 3.0 V6 5sp Gen 2 (no snorkel, standard filter element) who swears 2 Hiclones gave him more power. He said one Hiclone did absolutely nothing but placing in another unit (one halfway up the air duct the other at the throttle body) made a difference. He said fuel economy is the same though. The increase was subtle, more at higher revs, this is a guy I trust and not one to advertise such things.
I do also know guys with Toyo diesels who have had good results, again not neck snapping stuff but subtle improvements. Worth the $$ thats up to the individual.
The arguement that car makers would fit these things from the factory if they worked is a mute point IMHO. In high volume manufacturing one less bolt, clip etc can save hundreds of thousands of $$ per year.
Some vehicles by nature of a shit design do show benefits from things like extractors etc. But current model vehicles are so well engineered these days that it's sometimes hard to notice any improvementat all.
I've had extractors/sports exhausts fitted to a few vehicles and some improved very well others just made more noise.
Snorkels are another case in point, mine made absolutely no difference except for a tad more induction noise. My mates V6 Runner could keep 4th gear up a hill we regularly travel after fitting his (previously had to change to 3rd). This improvement was definitely noticeable by both him and myself. But try telling some people you can get a power gain out of a snorkel..................

Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Location: USA

Bitsamissin wrote:

But try telling some people you can get a power gain out of a snorkel..................

Thats a whole nother ball game. The two dont even compare at all. A snorkel will lower the temperature of the air charge on most vehicles, because most rigs pull air from the engine compartment, or from the wheel well or some other warmer source. Colder air, denser air, more power.

With a snorkel you get more air into the engine, hense more power.

Hiclone, spinning air, hits the runners in the plenum, hits the honeycomb in the mass air filter, goes through the small opening between the intake valves. Guess what it isnt spinning any more. No hunk of tin is going to turn a gerbile engine into a hemi. How could an obstruction that probally even impeeds air getting into the engine over stock, net any gain.

There isnt more air charge, there isnt a colder air charg, nothing. I highly doubt it is even spinning at all when it finally reaches the combustion chamber.

It is bs, snake oil. The kings new clothes.

Show me a dyno from some one who runs one. A real dyno that shows me some actual scientific proof. Do a run without the tin can, and one with it. Make sure everything else is constant.

I dont think any one can come up with real scientific data for this working, I'll bet a 12 pack on it. The Finger

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne

I had this arguement with DougM on Trail Talk.
There won't be any measurable effect on a chassis dyno simply because you cannot duplicate the road conditions.
The ram air effect cannot be duplicated on a dyno so all the people who claim they have got a small power gain when climbing hills are lying ?? No dyno test will ever back up their claim. The same for a Hiclone the high swirl effect can't be generated on a dyno.
4wd Monthly did a Hiclone test a while ago on a standard diesel Cruiser, I can't remember the exact results but they got a very good fuel economy increase and noticed more power. Again the dyno showed up nothing but on the road there was more power especially when climbing.
They ran the car without a Hiclone on a 400K trip, did the same with one Hiclone and again with 2 Hiclones. They chassis dynoed the car to get a base line and took meticulous fuel economy readings. These are experienced testers and do this for a living.
I don't think these things can be totally shitcanned out of hand as they obviously make a difference in certain vehicles.

Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Location: USA

Well I agree with you on the snorkel. And sometimes it can be seen on a dyno, because like I said above, the ram air isn't the only benefit. Even if a snorkel didn't add any positive pressure, it is still colder air. On the road, or on a dyno, it will give you a little more power.

But I have to play devils advocate.

Explain to me why a dyno cant measure one of those hiclone things. There is no difference running on a road, or running the dyno. Atmospheric pressure pushes air into the engine every time the intake valve opens right? So what difference is there in a NA engine on the road, and a NA engine on a dyno. None.

Unless you can read it on the dyno, it isn't there. The dyno is 10x more accurate, it takes away all of the extraneous factors. It takes away tail wind, driver input, the drag of the steering on a poor alignment. The dyno doesn't suffer from preconceived notions of an outcome, it has no bias, doesn't feel the effects of a "placebo".

If you want to measure something scientifically, you make everything else constant right? Thats what the dyno does. Everything remains constant except for the variable your testing for. The only thing that changes it the mod.

Come on Frank, I'll make it two 12 packs, your choice. Get me a dyno printout. The Finger

Joined: 28 Jan 2004

Doug, as much as I'd like to agree, I can't. Don't get me wrong. you'll never convince me that they work.
I have a sports car that has programmable engine management, CDI and traction control. I do all my own tuning, with lots of it on road. You definately cannot use a dyno for all your work. Dyno's do not provide a realistic version of "on-road". They are fine for power tuning, but for cruise/light load stuff, we always have to do those parts on road. Anything we even dyno tune in the cruise zone is always abortional to drive on road. Normally too lean, rough etc.

Still, crappy twisted tin!

LJ