Nissan radius arm FLEX design

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: brisbane

There is a story about this and a bit of tech info along the way.
In an effort to get decent flex and performance out of my GQ I decided a few weeks back to contact one of our sponsors of the DGR lux, Mick at Superior Engineering to pick his brains on what can be done to my lwb GQ. It was worth the call as he had a heap of options for me to look at and he was currently building his comp car so I was able to try different things on it - so long as I put it back to how it was.(5" lift, drop arms, longest toughdogs . . . . .new longarm rear rearend)

Firstly I tried his rig on the travel ramp to see how it went, and he also had a customer there who wanted to try his 5" lifted gq wagon as well, so this gave me a great 'baseline' for the amount of flex available from different setups.

Here comes the tech bits! Basically what I discovered was that 3-4" lift didn't hurt the pin mount too much in terms of bind but the radius bushes maxxed out long before the shocks. (First tried the longest travel tough dogs) thinking the shocks might be the problem I removed them and brought around a set of 15" travel procomps and some 16" racerunners, just incase!!! Even with the shocks removed I could not get any more than 110mm differential measured across the shock mounting position. These measurements are also very similar to both the 5" drop arms and the STD arms with drop boxes, although the ride with the drop boxes is much better. The boys also had all the test data kept from Brian’s 5link conversion, so it gave me a great target to aim at to design a setup that had similar flex. My main design objective is always drive-ability and the way it puts power to the ground (comes from my drag racing background), which is why the DGR lux has been so successful over the years - STABILITY, GROUND PRESSURE AND POWER TRANSFER.

So a few beers later, a lot of measurements and a lot of chalk sketches on the floor, I came up with an idea!! So off to work to draw it up and test it using our FEA design package. Well the numbers looked good so it was now time to make a dummy arm, so Monday night we started cutting out the plates and making a new arm, finished it off last night and pressed in a pair of std bushes, then it was off to the ramp for the moment of truth! (The pics taken last night were crap with car headlights so Mick took some new ones early this morning on the wet grass!!)

The newly designed arms are a blend of two different styles of arms, each complimenting the angles of deflection required for controlled flex. The key is to change the planes of deflection to allow full movement and resist that terrible binding and tearing of bushes that always occurs. The other main design criteria was to transmit complimentary torque back into the chassis to reduce the 'ROLLY' feeling that 5links and Xlinks are known for. This eliminates/reduces the need for a front swaybar both on and off road. This was the hardest part to calculate as the amount of torque required is non-linear across the axle width. But after having a good play on a hill close by (insane angles!!!) it works unbelievably well. These links are purely for a test ATM, but after seeing how well they work Mick at Superior want to start selling them as a kit. They will be purely bolt on, well I did it so it can’t be too hard. They will compliment his new long-arm kit perfectly, at least now we have all the data documented – spring rates, shock lengths, shock tower heights, and travel lengths. I have certainly learnt heaps about getting flex out of nissans, a lot of setups I had always though worked well have actually proven to be very disappointing, but hopefully this might give you guys some ideas.
The parts are all designed around a complete bolt-on setup, i have all the drawings so if he does want to sell them it would be easy to get the bits all laser cut. I couldnt see the cost being mch more than a std type 'drop-arm' kit, but there are a few extra bolts, 2 mount adapter plates and spacer. Also one thing that i did find out in testing is that with that amount of flex it needed 230mm of shock travel in the front, so the longest toughdog limits travel only by about 10-15mm, so there is no need for weird shocks/&towers just std ones modified to a set height ~100-120mm depending on the spring combination, and vehicle setup.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:50 pm

Good tech Greg and Mike! Superior are a fine company and this just proves it!!!

Dude i think you and Mike are hangin out a little too much!!!

Cage cam up a treat too!

Joined: 24 Sep 2006

Be real keen for some pics of the actual bolt on bits.

Dazza

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Ringwood East, VIC

azzad wrote:

Be real keen for some pics of the actual bolt on bits.

Dazza

Right-O, should he send his design drawings while he's at it?

Rolling Eyes

Joined: 20 May 2007 Location: Toowoomba QLD

Yes

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: cashmere

its good to see finally somone doing a comprehensive make for the front of the trolls Wink

..... keep it up fellar... and as always mick from superior will produce a top quality work piece armsup

Joined: 24 Sep 2006

RoldIT wrote:

azzad wrote:

Be real keen for some pics of the actual bolt on bits.

Dazza

Right-O, should he send his design drawings while he's at it?

Rolling Eyes

What you dont think everyones going to see it anyway?

How many ppl u think would actually go to the effort of making their own?

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: cashmere

u would be supprised Rolling Eyes

Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Location: Port Macquarie

Ill pay $$$$$ for a set...

Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Location: warner, brisbane

might have to drive the 500metres to his house and check these babies out.

Joined: 24 Sep 2006

JemmyBubbles wrote:

Ill pay $$$$$ for a set...

x2

Just wanna see what all the fuss is about Cool

Joined: 10 May 2004 Location: Goodna QLD

So how much more travel did you guys get over your first tests. armsup

ludaCris

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:15 am

Good thing you didn't have longer shocks because he would of driven over the end of his ramp. Then we will need a ramp build up thread. Very impressive indeed. Wink

I am very curious, I think Mick will get a visit from me next week.

Shane

Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Location: Port Macquarie

I'm excited....

Keep looking at the photos really close too Laughing

( 3 mounting points on the diff end of the passenger side radius arm ??@?@?@?@??@?@?!?!?!?! - or am I blind) there are a couple there where you would expect to see the length of the radius arm, but you can't see anything so they must be pretty well tucked up.

Joined: 28 Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane - Northside

4WD Stuff wrote:

Good thing you didn't have longer shocks because he would of driven over the end of his ramp. Then we will need a ramp build up thread. Very impressive indeed. Wink

I am very curious, I think Mick will get a visit from me next week.

Shane

No shocks were fitted The Finger

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:22 am

Willy Hilux wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:

Good thing you didn't have longer shocks because he would of driven over the end of his ramp. Then we will need a ramp build up thread. Very impressive indeed. Wink

I am very curious, I think Mick will get a visit from me next week.

Shane

No shocks were fitted The Finger

i noticed that, cant wait to see how this performs this weekend and next week on the street. im getting all excited Very Happy

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:59 am

love ke70 wrote:

Willy Hilux wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:

Good thing you didn't have longer shocks because he would of driven over the end of his ramp. Then we will need a ramp build up thread. Very impressive indeed. Wink

I am very curious, I think Mick will get a visit from me next week.

Shane

No shocks were fitted The Finger

i noticed that, cant wait to see how this performs this weekend and next week on the street. im getting all excited Very Happy

Can someone put some shocks on those photos for me. ASAP. #Fist

Joined: 03 Aug 2004 Location: yagoona

I will be very interested in more detail of this set up and would be happy to hand over money for it after seeing the thoughts after a good trial.

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: brisbane

sorry for the slow reply guys, i don't get on OL on the w'end much.

as said those pics were no shocks, so we could make templates and work out final shock lengths. details: REAR - long arm kit, micro-alloy 5" rear springs and the sad part - 18" shocks, yep thats right it uses every bit of 18" travel race runner shocks and even then we had to lean them in a little. we were amazed to see that it has so much compression that the original bump stop was being touched!!! but however the longest toughdogs were a good compromise as they were the limiting factor in regards to compression. Mick has all the details on the spring, i cant remember??
FRONT - std style 4-6" drop arm on drivers side, new high flex arm on passenger side with mount plates (similar to castor plates but used to get a strong mounting point in a different pivot plane at the back of the diff) and spacer ( to strengthen the std front bolt holt). 5" springs and 10.5" travel toughdogs on 115mm high shock towers. we are currently tryin to get a set of those awesome micro-alloy springs for the front, so there is a set of 15" travel procomps waiting to be trialled.
if you need more info ring Mick at superior, i forgot half this stuff.(too busy playing with the hydro)

Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Location: Capalaba

1MadEngineer wrote:

we are currently tryin to get a set of those awesome micro-alloy springs for the front

Isn't amazing - Landrover have been using micro-alloy springs for yonks!!! - Go the landie !! Showing the way again. #Onfire

Peter K.

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: outer east Melb.

Quote:

Isn't amazing - Landrover have been using micro-alloy springs for yonks!!! - Go the landie !! Showing the way again.

Yeah....... Rolling Eyes

....too bad they cant design a simple oil seal that actually works.... #Rofl

jspokingfun Very Happy

Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Location: Capalaba

MUD EMPIRE wrote:

Quote:

Isn't amazing - Landrover have been using micro-alloy springs for yonks!!! - Go the landie !! Showing the way again.

Yeah....... Rolling Eyes

....too bad they cant design a simple oil seal that actually works.... #Rofl

jspokingfun Very Happy

The superior of the species always marks it's territory. Laughing

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: outer east Melb.

Quote:

The superior of the species always marks it's territory.

good comeback..!!! Very Happy

Joined: 18 Nov 2005

what height is that ramp?

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: brisbane

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

what height is that ramp?

sorry mate no idea, but he is running 38.5" boggers, so you can guess i spose. i think its just a std 20deg but not sure.

Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Location: lost

a 44 drum is roughly just under the second black rung on the ramp so that should give u an idea

Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Location: Your Mummas House!

just put leaf springs in it Cool

Joined: 20 Nov 2003 Location: Bathurst NSW

The other main design criteria was to transmit complimentary torque back into the chassis to reduce the 'ROLLY' feeling that 5links and Xlinks are known for.

5links maybe

The second majour point of the XLink is that it delivers an exact equal amount of torque to both arms in any wheel travel position meaning it wont try to tip you over when you give it a boot full or jump on the brakes. No bushing or arm design will eva offer what the XLink can and as for "Rolly feeling " looks like you havent driven an XLinked rig! right.

Chad

hey got a Question!

What is "transmit complimentary torque" mean? I think the XLink does it but im not sure??

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:28 pm

professor wrote:

The other main design criteria was to transmit complimentary torque back into the chassis to reduce the 'ROLLY' feeling that 5links and Xlinks are known for.

5links maybe

The second majour point of the XLink is that it delivers an exact equal amount of torque to both arms in any wheel travel position meaning it wont try to tip you over when you give it a boot full or jump on the brakes. No bushing or arm design will eva offer what the XLink can and as for "Rolly feeling " looks like you havent driven an XLinked rig! right.

Chad

hey got a Question!

What is "transmit complimentary torque" mean? I think the XLink does it but im not sure??

whats the Xlink like around corners? from what ive seen, heard and been told, they just start to roll and keep rolling. due to the nature of the design?
i like the idea of an Xlink, but from what i ahve heard i wouldnt want it on a daily rig. whats your thoughts on this?

cheers, andrew

Joined: 20 Nov 2003 Location: Bathurst NSW

love ke70 wrote:

professor wrote:

The other main design criteria was to transmit complimentary torque back into the chassis to reduce the 'ROLLY' feeling that 5links and Xlinks are known for.

5links maybe

The second majour point of the XLink is that it delivers an exact equal amount of torque to both arms in any wheel travel position meaning it wont try to tip you over when you give it a boot full or jump on the brakes. No bushing or arm design will eva offer what the XLink can and as for "Rolly feeling " looks like you havent driven an XLinked rig! right.

Chad

hey got a Question!

What is "transmit complimentary torque" mean? I think the XLink does it but im not sure??

whats the Xlink like around corners? from what ive seen, heard and been told, they just start to roll and keep rolling. due to the nature of the design?
i like the idea of an Xlink, but from what i ahve heard i wouldnt want it on a daily rig. whats your thoughts on this?

cheers, andrew

Everyone wants it all!
you can't have it.

it is definatly more supple and that is what is intened but they are not scary to drive as implyed.(there is now a simple lockoff for the XLink too) There is allot to think about and its not just bolting somthing up. as stated spring rates shock rates and loads all play a part. its hard to make a device that covers all bases to suit every situation ie handleing and travel to work together.

I look forward to see how the new arms perform.

back to the arms

Chad